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How to make cutoff automatization?

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Please, how to make cutoff moving up or down when I press key?
Usaly I look a VSTi examples and I see the filter manipulation but i'm having a hard time replace it for MODX.
What is close way to automatize? Filter Envelope or motion sequencer or LFO page?

https://youtu.be/XqqdtuQbR7w
time 3.31

 
Posted : 10/10/2022 9:50 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

What is close way to automatize? Filter Envelope or motion sequencer or LFO page?

You can move the Filter Cutoff using the Filter Envelope, using the Motion Sequencer, using an LFO, you can move the Filter Cutoff with a Control Arpeggio that moves an Assign Knob assigned to do so.

In general, the “Filter Envelope” describes a “one-shot”… meaning you can program a Filter sweep the occurs when you strike a note… you can program how much movement, the direction of movement, even tailor it to how you strike the keyboard…

Both the “Element LFO” and the “Part LFO” can be assigned to manipulate the Filter, the “Element LFO” can be full-time or assigned to a Controller (like the MW); the “Part LFO” can work as a “one-shot” or it can be set to “loop” endlessly (even in sync to the Performance Tempo).

The “Motion Sequence”, by definition, is a kind of “automation” — you can work most any assignable parameters, including Filter Cutoff; it can be set as a “one-shot” or set to “loop”.

The “Arpeggiator” has the several Arp Types that are designed specifically to open and close the Filter Cutoff. You can search for them using the Arpeggio Search engine (purple).
Call up the Factory Preset Performance: RhythmicFilterPad1 for a good study on this type of programming.

While on the HOME screen, move the cursor to the “Type/Name”box for Part 1
Press the [ASSIGN] button so it lights
The first View screen should show the “Part Assign 1-4” Knobs

Press and hold a chord… Part 1 Assign Knob 1 is set follow the Control Arp which is instructed to move Cutoff. If you stop the Arpeggio, you can manually move the Part 1 Assign 1 Knob to get the same result.

The MODX/MODX+ allows you to create your own Control Arps, or choose from bunches of presets.

Extra Credit
See this post for a more complete analysis of Performance: “RhythmicFilterPad1”

 
Posted : 11/10/2022 12:29 am
Posts: 1715
Noble Member
 

[quotePost id=118690]

What is close way to automatize? Filter Envelope or motion sequencer or LFO page?

You can move the Filter Cutoff using the Filter Envelope, using the Motion Sequencer, using an LFO, you can move the Filter Cutoff with a Control Arpeggio that moves an Assign Knob assigned to do so.

In general, the “Filter Envelope” describes a “one-shot”… meaning you can program a Filter sweep the occurs when you strike a note… you can program how much movement, the direction of movement, even tailor it to how you strike the keyboard…
[/url][/quotePost]

I'm reasonably sure that this isn't true, that the Filter's Envelope controls the AMOUNT of filtering, not the Cutoff of the filter.

There is some incidental movement of the Cutoff as a result of the reduction/increase of the amount of filtering, largely due to the curve of the Filter's shape being increasingly realised as the amount of filtering decreases. I think this is why resonance has an ugly screeching when using the Filter Envelope to reduce the Filter faster than the Amplitude Envelope can hide this ugly screeching.

This is also why you can have a fully quietened filter by bringing the ADDR settings to minus values, regardless of the Cutoff Value, and why there's still Cutoff movement of the full range available when the ADDR is at maximum values.

Further, so far as I'm aware, there's no way to, on a note by note basis, modify the Cutoff, as would be nice with a true Envelope Generator making unique envelopes for each note strike. This is most noticeable as a bit of a lag when using extreme negative values. When the Cutoff is animated by any of the systems that can move it, it's moving it holistically, for the whole sound/part, not generating unique animations of the Cutoff on a per note basis, but the Filter Envelope Generator (FEG) is doing this for the AMOUNT of the filtering.

If a note is a pluck due to amplification envelopes cutting it down to a rapid pluck sound, this isn't really all that noticeable unless you're playing very fast. If it's a longer bowed or pad sound, you can hear the resultant cutoff moving over your past played but still sustained notes and the current note activating the animation of the cutoff impacting all sounds coming from the part, not just the current note.

 
Posted : 11/10/2022 3:28 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

@Andrew...

The FEG does move the Cutoff Frequency over time*.

Set up a Saw Wave Element, and set the Filter to a Low Pass and the FEG to a simple (classic) ADSR.

Try it with both Monopoly and Polyphony settings. Also try with and without Legato.

Also try adjusting Key Tracking.

*There are some Combo Filters where the FEG is set to change "something else"... IIRC these differences are listed in the Parameter Manual.

You may have to watch out for "pinning" where the Envelope Amount increases or decreases the Filter Cutoff beyond its limit, and therefore appears to "do nothing" over time. Rule of Thumb, set Envelope Amount (Depth, Ratio whatever its called I don't remember) low, and increase gradually. Also, it is best to set the initial Filter Cutoff to a point where it is actually doing something you can hear relative to the note you are playing.... so Sweep it first while playing a note, and set it to its "resting position"... for example, with a Saw, set it low where the "Buzz" starts to sound like a "Sine" (single tone, organ tone etc).

 
Posted : 11/10/2022 9:41 am
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

Also on page 143 of the Data List doc the 'Sound Type column shows those (CC#16) for each of those 5 but on the Modx shows ('Utility -> Settings -> MIDI I/O -> Control Number') CC#16 assigned to the Ribbon Controller by default and CC#17 assigned to assign knob 1.

The docs are wrong for CC#16 and CC#17 in this section. Ignore the CC and know the naming convention AS1 = Assignable Knob #1 and AS2 = Assignable Knob #2.

Random Trivia ...

I've pointed this out before, but as a joke or maybe just a big goof - the Previous Yamaha Motif placed the Ribbon Controller on CC 22 decimal. That's hex 0x16. Now this generation Montage/MODX has the Ribbon Controller on CC 16 decimal (not 16 hex like the previous).

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 11/10/2022 10:22 am
Posts: 1715
Noble Member
 

@Antony, what you're describing is what I've labelled "incidental" movement of the Cutoff. It's not actually moving the Cutoff when the FEG Values decrease, but the reduction in volume (or increase in the AMOUNT of filtering, as I call it) causes a sensation that can, sometimes, seem reminiscent of a Cutoff being moved to the left.

FEG Depth and its attendant driver from Depth/Vel as determined by the Curve to the right of it, and the compounding Gain combine with the Values of the FEG's ADDR over time to decrease and increase the AMOUNT of filtering.

When you look at the graph drawing representative of the Filter (eg Low Pass), you can think of these properties/contributors raising and lowering the graph, not moving it back and forth from left to right. When you think of it like this, the use of the word "Depth" makes some sense, though its values are inverse to what we experience as a result.

The FEG's ADDR is a time based controller of this "Depth" of a Filter, changing the amount of filtering occurring, not the position of the Cutoff.

This is exactly why I've requested a CEG (Cutoff Envelope Generator) somewhere in one of my rants, along with a REG (Resonance Envelope Generator) so that we might get more modern filtering controls... which would be absolutely amazing fun with FM and make AWM2 capable of far better at everything from impersonating "analogue" synths to layered drones and special effects sounds. But also drum/percussion sounds and bass in both FM and AWM2 would be greatly improved in the time/filtering domains.

And these CEG and REG would be note unique (truly polyphonic) ideally, too.

 
Posted : 11/10/2022 12:23 pm
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