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Zone and Single Mode

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 Bill
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

I am able to operate the Montage in Midi Single Mode provided that I have the Zone Master turned off. (Firmware 1.20.4) Many of my Performances are using up to 4 instruments. These sounds are played locally as well giving access to some other midi controllers including another Montage. These are all layers to create the desired sound.

I must operate the Montage with the Zone Master turned on since it is my main instrument and controller and also makes the Program Changes for the entire system.

Since I can't get away from using the Zone Master and it's awesome features, my 4 instruments in my Performance Patch are being addressed as if it's a Multi even though I have selected Single Mode and Midi Channel 1.

I can't see any way to get around this other than having the ability to assign a Receive Midi Channel to each Instrument slot in the Performance.

I would like to be included with the long list of folks who's blogs and threads that I've read today that are asking for this same basic function.

With this, the Montage which is an awesome sounding and featured keyboard, will be that much more versatile and diversified.

Thanks Yamaha.

 
Posted : 15/12/2016 10:10 pm
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

Using (one of the two) Montage as the "master" controller - which device is sending MIDI to target the Montage which is not responding as you expect?

Generally, my feedback is that your setup is not a simple point-to-point and therefore could use more specifics on the connectivity along with detail of which component is sending the MIDI message, what the message is, etc.

Also, it's important to know if the setting you are using applies to MIDI out or MIDI IN. This could be labeled better. I've seen BM say that "MIDI I/O Mode" is exactly what it says - that it applies to MIDI OUT -and- IN. However, the documentation only mentions transmit:

MIDI I/O Mode Determines which MIDI I/O mode is used for data communication between this instrument and an external device. Settings: Multi, Single Multi: Transmits MIDI data such as Note On/Off messages for each Part. Single: Transmits MIDI data using only the channel specified in “MIDI I/O Ch.”

Note that documentation only specifically calls out "transmits" and does not mention "receives".

I recognize that "transmits" could be referring to both the Montage AND the external device - but that's not how I read it. If this is the intent of the documentation, I would want the source(s) listed. When I see MONTAGE has a setting - then the setting showing "transmits MIDI data" - I interpret this as MONTAGE doing the transmitting. Also, an external device doesn't have any "Part" paradigm (unless it is also a Montage) - so this further "seals the deal" for me that the documentation is only describing the Montage as doing the transmitting. Of course, the documentation could be "wrong" - it wouldn't be the first time.

Therefore, either BM's previous clarification is incorrect or the documentation is misleading/incomplete.

Documentation source: "montage_en_nf_b0.pdf" page 17.

Previous post/thread with BM's clarification: https://yamahasynth.com/forum/midi-i-o-on-single-what-happens-exactly

Excerpt from post:

From Bad Mister:
No. Setting the Montage to MIDI I/O = Single is just as it says, the Montage will receive (In) and transmit (Out) on a single Midi channel, period.

My opinion is that documentation, programs (like Montage Connect), and the Montage GUI (touchscreen, space permitting) - should always identify what device is sending data and what device is receiving data when data flow is involved. This is not always clearly stated.

"Montage (MIDI OUT) sends MIDI to external devices (MIDI IN) using MIDI channel xyz"
"External device (MIDI OUT) sends MIDI to Montage (MIDI IN), Montage PART number responds to corresponding MIDI channel number"

etc.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 16/12/2016 5:49 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

When the Zone function is active, the Zone setting for the Performance is given priority over the “MIDI I/O Mode” setting. You can see which setting is active from the MIDI Signal Flow in the MIDI I/O display.

Btw- MIDI I/O mode, the "I" is INPUT, the "O" is OUTPUT.
It is not called "MIDI O mode", but "MIDI I/O mode" or MIDI INPUT/OUTPUT mode. Just FYI.

I must operate the Montage with the Zone Master turned on since it is my main instrument and controller and also makes the Program Changes for the entire system.

Since I can't get away from using the Zone Master and it's awesome features, my 4 instruments in my Performance Patch are being addressed as if it's a Multi even though I have selected Single Mode and Midi Channel 1.

I can't see any way to get around this other than having the ability to assign a Receive Midi Channel to each Instrument slot in the Performance.

Each slot of a Performance is assigned a MIDI channel. The channel matches the Part number. There is certainly a way to work your setup without having to set the internal Parts channels.

Zone Master let's you transmit Out on any channel from any of the sixteen Parts.
If you don't want the internal Parts to sound simply use the INT SW = OFF for that slot.
If you don't want the slot to transmit Out simply set Transmit Ch = OFF

 
Posted : 16/12/2016 3:39 pm
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

BM,

Yes, I'm aware of I=in and O=out. Having designed microprocessor systems and having specified the use of GPIOs, GPIs, and GPOs (general purpose buffers with input and output capabilities, inputs only, or outputs only) - my message was composed fully aware of the breakdown of "MIDI I/O". The problem with a term like "MIDI I/O" is that it doesn't mean anything unless you wrap a description around it. The "I" for in could be an input to Montage. Could be an input to the external device. Likewise for the assignment of "O" for output. As I mentioned, to reduce ambiguity the source and destination of each path should be "spelled out".

Your statement (quoted) has no ambiguity. The documentation does. Furthermore, the lack of any description in the documentation of the receive path implies (when looking entirely at the documentation - with no further information) that the feature only applies to Montage as an output (transmit) output) and the external device as the input (receiver).

If your earlier statement is correct and MIDI I/O limits Montage receive to a single MIDI channel, then I would suggest revising the documentation as this is a major omission not to spell out that this is what is going on. To require digging up a forum post would not be preferable from a support standpoint - and it would be best for the "NF" document to be revised - and eventually make its way into new revisions of the owners/reference manuals.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 17/12/2016 4:34 pm
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