More than this....if for example I active part zone on part 5 it happens that also part 3 (that have part zone off) stop to sound if I play from master keyboard (but not if I play it from montage keybed).....
So in the end ....using master keyboard to drive montage and montage setted on midi mode "SINGLE" is not equivalent to have a external keybed that drive montage......there is some issue and things that doesn't work right

The 24 semi-tone limit comes from the tone generator parameters that go way back in time. This part of Yamaha architecture (as many other items) have been part of the Motif, "MO", now Montage fabric for many generations. Other Yamaha keyboards share the same basic internal parts and so they also share the same types of limits.

I'm not saying the request is a bad idea - but providing some context to help assist in appreciating how "entrenched" this parameter is, how it may not be something available to change at the firmware level, etc. Certainly, there's a way to "do this" if they had a core which would allow for greater than +/-24 semi-tones. From a compatibility standpoint, Yamaha could continue to use the same "register" definition for +/-24 semi-times then have another register which would be an offset. Two bits would cover it. 0x00 = no offset (+/-24 range). 0x01 = offset pos (+) side by 25, offset neg (-) side by 0 (-24 min/+49 max). 0x02 = offset pos(+) side by 0, offset neg(-) side by 25 (-49 min/+24 max). 0x03 = offset pos(+) side by 25, offset neg(-) side by 25 (-49 min/+49max). Tone generator and related logic would have to support this range (likely change) - but the software side could easily maintain compatibility with the "old" way by forcing the new registers to 0 - and extended range only invoked when non-zero. Lots of different ways to do this - just one example.

Some of these features are not a part of the hardware which can be modified - so when I say "can" this is thinking of future generations.

Since you are trying to target an FM PART - why not use FM parameters as one method to shift the pitch down? You could use the ratio of the carriers to shift the pitch down. A ratio of 0.5 will give you -12 semi-tones, add that to the -24 and you get -36.

The other trick I sometimes use when I need extreme shifting in one direction is I will octave shift my entire keyboard for a certain tune. So for this performance you are describing, I may - just for this tune - know I need to press the "Octave - " button once. Then everything will sound 1 octave lower. Some tunes I would octave shift even more extreme (two octaves). The other PARTs which do not need to be shifted - I would add to those +12 coarse pitch tuning so they do not play as octave shifted. This means only the PARTs I have set to zero (or less -12, -24, etc) coarse pitch shift will sound as a lower octave. This is another option which works for everything (FM, AWM2). Since I'm using the keyboard octave shift as part of the equation - it doesn't work in both directions at the same time. In other words, if you want -48 AND +48, it's not going to work. It allows for getting -48/+0, -32/+12, -24/+24 (no octave shift), -12/+36, -0/+48. Pick one. Of "coarse" [sic], you could go more extreme like +12/+60 or -12/-60 (because you can octave shift even more extremely). And certainly, non-octave pitch shifting is available since coarse tuning does not have to be a multiple of 12 semi-tones - but easier to just describe as octave offsets.

Zone stuff is another thing. I think it would help to upload your X7B (captured by Montage Connect) of your performance since there's a string of setup questions that would be best be answered just by loading up your performance as-is.

Since I'm not sure if the X7B saves off your single-channel-mode MIDI channel - what's that set to (in addition to the X7B file)?

There's this business about overriding the single-mode MIDI channel when using PART zone-control's MIDI channel in conjunction with single-midi-channel mode. That's the reason for the question/clarification request.

Thanks Jason for FM ratio suggestion.
It remain the problems connected to the fact that if in one performance one or more parts have zone part ON it could be that some parts that have zone part OFF can't be driven from master keyboard also if montage is on single mode.

If you have globally selected MIDI I/O Mode = Single, it will always be true that when you activate the Zone Switch function within a Performance, it naturally overrides the Single MIDI I/O Mode setting.

As you know, the Zone Master function is made globally in [UTILITY] > "Settings" > "Advanced". On this same screen you can select the global MIDI I/O Mode. The default is Multi (the Montage transmits and receives on 16 channels). Single mode allows the Montage to transmit and receive on a single designated channel.

When you recall a Performance, if you select to use the Zone Switch function this will automatically override the MIDI I/O Mode Single setting... and the Zone Settings and Zone Transmit settings made locally within that Performance will prevail. If no Zone Switch is activated within the current Performance, then the rules of the selected global MIDI I/O Mode setting will apply.

In other words, you cannot have a Performance setup to transmit on multiple channels at the same time the Montage is set receive as Single.

Hope that helps.

Thanks bad minister but I had just discover this things unfurtunately.... :--)
The strange things is that if I set with part zone the same channel of master keyboard the part doesn't sound anyway.....
....for example on part 5 if I set zone part that transmith on channel 1 and master keyboard is on channel 1 the part 5 doesn't sound
I hope that some inprovement in pitch feature will be considered in the next firmwere.
Regards

....for example on part 5 if I set zone part that transmith on channel 1 and master keyboard is on channel 1 the part 5 doesn't sound
I hope that some inprovement in pitch feature will be considered in the next firmwere.
Regards

I'm sorry, if I did not explain this well. But think about it a bit more. If you are using the Montage as a CONTROLLER, (this means you are using the Zone functions) then the Montage MUST be in MULTI. This is logical and will probably not be "fixed" in a firmware update... as it is not broken.

When you turn the ZONE Switch On in a Part - the sound in PART 5 is on MIDI channel 5. When the ZONE Switch is ON in a PERFORMANCE then each PART will receive on the MIDI channel that corresponds to it PART number. So PART 5 will receive data on MIDI channel 5 - as long as the other requirements for it to sound, are met.

Bad Mister the fact that it is not possible to choose the channel on witch the part receive midi I think that should be "fixed". Thanks anyway, but my problem it is not solved.

Again, I have failed to explain it well. I understand that you feel it is something that should be "fixed", it is my task to tell try to explain that it is working as it should. I also know that this does not solve your issue the way you want to solve it.

I am trying to inform you that your energy is better spent finding a different way to accomplish your goal.

For example, transmit from your external keyboard on MIDI channel 5.
When the Zone Switch is ON within a Montage PERFORMANCE, this will automatically override "Single" mode, by definition, Zones imply "Multi". As you know Single mode means Montage transmits and receives on a single MIDI channel. When you activate the Zone Switch, you do so when you want to manually setup on which MIDI channels you are going to transmit on, and on which channels you are going to receive on.

It is simply an "either/or" type situation, It cannot be both. The car can be in Drive or it can be in Reverse, it is an either/or situation. You either have a Single transmit/receive Channel for all of Montage, or you have a Multi situation where you setup the transmit/receive channels per each active Part.

I hope that explains it better. I'll keep trying - maybe you can express what exactly you are attempting to accomplish, perhaps we can help find you a working solution for your setup. If not, we can try again to explain how it works... Single or Multi.

Bad minister the concept is clear, or multi or single and if I activate a zone part in a part 5 of a performance montage automatic switch from single to multi midi mode.....
.....but from my point of view, and maybe you didn't undestend what I mean before, the problem is that I have a master keyboard setted on channel 1 and if in the montage I turn ON zone part of part 5 and set channel 1 for this part 5 zone setting, montage can't recive midi from master keybord on this part 5 and part 5 doesn't sound also if the zone part 5 channel is setted on channel 1.....that's the metter.....it seams that if I turn on zone part 5 setting, montage can receive midi on this part only if they come in channel 5 (but I have setted channel 1 for midi trasmission in zone part 5).....
Maybe I wrong something....

Bed minister sorry but why in multi midi mode I can't choose the channel on witch the part 5 (for example) receive a midi message. Why it must stay fixed to receive midi message only to channel 5?.....for me this is to fixed......I should be free to choose on witch midi channel a part receive midi message.
Other problem is that it is not possible to choose fm part pitch more than +-24. I need +-48.....in the past I turn around this limitation with part zone octave setting but now I can't use part zone because I drive montage from master keybord in single midi mode.....so no solution about it....

I've provided a method for dealing with the octave shift while using the Montage keyboard. If while using an external controller, then you can place the range anywhere (extreme low, extreme high) and use the external keyboard's features to shift around notes (map physical notes to target MIDI note) which may exceed the +/-24 semi-tone range. Since there are two sides of the configuration you have available to tweak.

Also, on the Nord you can set the octave shift so it shifts down all MIDI notes (some to enable this mode, you press both Octave+ and Octave- at the same time. Some models, you use the SHIFT key on the Nord). You can use the "trick" I described before where you use this as part of your setup (octave shift on your MIDI controller, the Nord) so all notes come in to Montage as shifted down by an octave. Then, for most PARTs - shift them back up by an octave. This allows you to add a full octave shift down in addition to the -24 (2 octave) setting of a PART. The previous suggestion for shifting the Montage itself (using octave) works just as well with most external MIDI controllers.

The limitation on incoming MIDI channel assignment vs. competition has been covered (at least pointed out as a short-fall vs. features available on other manufacturers' flagships). I think if enough users demonstrate this is needed to solve MIDI integration problems then eventually critical mass will help nudge the priority higher.

There may be a way to solve the problem without being able to map PART MIDI receive channels to custom values (a feature which does not exist on Montage). Although, if exists, it may be one way to get what you want - it would be worth exploring if there are alternatives that work within the system as it exists now since changing the MIDI receive channel story is not likely to happen any time soon.

In general, I would say you have been given a set of tools. You've got to do work in order to realize your desired configuration. Not everything is going to be smooth - meaning not everything is going to fit the purpose (as you see it) of the tools available - so you have to work around that and modify what you need to in order to work within the system. It's not bad to cite where things can be better (I do it all the time). However, most of the time I find a way that works to meet my original goals if I maybe "give up" some small goal - or do something "creative" to still satisfy all the original goals. Sometimes you can meet all your goals by purchasing external hardware - particularly when the issue is related to MIDI implementation (there are fancy small boxes that do lots of MIDI manipulation/routing/etc). I'll generally "give up" on one of my smaller goals to get by without adding gear - but you may have different thresholds.

The landscape is much wider than "will Montage accept MIDI input on any other channel except for the PART number it lives on, or the single-midi-mode receive channel?". You bumped into a wall, turn around and try something else.

Jason in this case I drive montage by kawai vpc1 that hasn't any transpose function. More I can't use external masterkeyboard transpose function because in my case I need a montage -36 pitch because program is splitted in 3 keyboard range and in the upper range I need fm part that sound low in layer with other part that sound higt....so I can't use any transpose setting but I need a pitch setting in local zone where I have splitted program.
I coming from roland, korg and nord and all this producer have a possibiliti to change the pitch in local zone more than +-24 pitch. So I think that yamaha should fix this gap. More it should be a good think if, like roland, it should be also a possibility of smooth key transition (adjustable in value) in a zone where I split a part to define its keyrange (now keyrange is fixed by two note value....around this two note value it should be a nice feature to have a range of smooth transition in the use of keyboard like new nord stage 3 feauture or like old fantom g roland).

I'm not sure you're catching what I'm throwing.

Say you have the following zones:

Montage Zone 1 = lowest on keyboard, no transposition or note shift on Montage
Montage Zone 2 = a little higher on the keyboard, no transposition or note shift on Montage
Montage Zone 3 = a little higher on the keyboard, no transposition or note shift on Montage
Montage Zone 4 = a little higher on the keyboard, no transposition or note shift on Montage
Montage Zone 5 = highest zone, but you want it to sound -36, but you cannot due to limits.

To Fix (when using an external general MIDI controller - not VPC1 - it's too specialized to do anything reasonable as a MIDI controller)::

1) Change external controller to set transpose to -12 (for lowest note on keyboard of controller, sends out MIDI note as one octave lower than the sound of key pressed.
2) Change montage setup
Montage zone 1 = now note shift +12 (sounds same as previous config)
Montage zone 2 = now note shift +12 (sounds same as previous config)
Montage zone 3 = now note shift +12 (sounds same as previous config)
Montage zone 4 = now note shift +12 (sounds same as previous config)
Montage zone 5 = now note shift -24 (now sounds -36 when you add the transpose + note shift)

Note there are more details around key ranges as well (on Montage) but the basic idea is that you can get what you want if your external controller can shift its MIDI notes down a full octave from where you hit the note on the keyboard - which would, on the Montage, force you to transpose UP an octave for everything except your -36 PART.

... more spelled out. I'm using a "toy" keyboard to demonstrate some of this, because it should have the most basic set of MIDI controls that just about anything with the word "MIDI" in the manual should support. The toy piano is the Korg Liverpool

1) I setup Montage so that range C3-E3 is the init AWM2 piano and F3-A3 is an upright bass
The upright bass is too high, I want to make it -36. I can only go -24, so I'll use the "trick"
2) I setup the Korg MIDI out cable to Montage MIDI in and change Montage to MIDI mode (not USB). I also turn off the internal speakers of the toy keyboard - now I can hear when I mash down on middle C-E above on the Korg I hear the piano. I'll just focus on the piano (MIDI ch 1 = PART1) for now since you can take this guide and apply to any other PARTs
3) I press the OCTAVE - (negative) button on the Korg Liverpool external controller. This makes all notes I play on the Liverpool send out a MIDI note that is an octave lower than the actual note. So when I hit middle "C" on the liverpool instead of sending out a C3 it sends out a C2. "C2" doesn't match anything so I don't hear anything. I have to press the "C" ABOVE middle C to get a sound (to get C3 to get sent out). Initially, this looks like the wrong direction - but bear with me.
4) Now I have to edit the note range on Montage to match the octave shift external controller, change all note ranges of all PARTs to an octave below the current range. So for PART1 I change C3-E3 to C2-E2 and PART 2 from F3-A3 to F2-A2.
5) Now when I go back to the Liverpool (ext controller) I can play middle C which shifted the piano down by one octave. I don't want the piano to change - just the bass. So back to the Montage ...
6) For PART1 (the piano), I change "note shift" by selecting PART 1 for [EDIT] then touchscreen menu "General Settings" -> "Pitch" then touch "Note Shift" and change this to +12
7) Back to the external controller, I press C3 and the piano is back to sounding in the original octave.

As we leave it here - the bass will be an octave lower (with note shift as +0 on PART2) than the note played on the keyboard. So with zero note shift in the PART parameters, we've already shifted down this PART by an octave due to the change in settings for the external controller in combination with the note range change. We can add note shift -24 to PART2 and the bass will sound as -36 (adding the octave transpose of the external controller plus the note shift).

Note - to get the bass to sound with liverpool I have to add a bunch of useless details of how to setup a "split" to get more than one MIDI channel to send out of Liverpool since I'm using multi-channel MIDI mode. The suggestion works for multi or single channel. There's enough detail here for you to apply to your setup.

This is a "game" of shifting reference points. I believe using "tricks" (valid programming configurations) you can get exactly what you want to happen even though it's not HOW you would want to arrive there. I call it a "trick" because there are some extra setup steps that you would have to do that are outside of what would come more natural (to you) if you had the ability to note shift -36. We still arrive at a note which is -36 semitones from where we started pressing the same key without applying any programming changes.

This concept of applying global offsets - then applying local offsets to "un-offset" all but one setting shows up in different places as well like microtuning. The global offset here is the external keyboard's octave setting. And local offsets are each PART's note shift. We add global+local to get extended note shift ranges. And if global and local add to zero (like -12 global, +12 local) then we, even though we have the external keyboard set at -12 (one octave lower) - we can make PARTs sound without note shift because -12 plus +12 equals 0 shift.

We've limited our positive shifting using this to +12 (because +24 local max plus -12 global equals +12 max), but I'm not aware this hurts your performance at this point. You say you need +-48, but haven't spelled out which PART(s) need that much range (or any you have positive note shifts on for a non-transposed external keyboard).

You never uploaded the X7B so the full story of what you're trying to do is hidden behind what you express as one roadblock which has been three times cleared.

Your Montage sitting in front of you with no prospects of having new firmware today does not care about your other equipment that can do things it cannot do. So what cannot be done is noted, filed, comprehended, agreed upon by other forum members - lets move on to what you can do with what you have as it stands today.