Sounds good. It seems like you and I will have a similar setup (if I can get hold of a CK, they've started landing here but seem to walk out the door fast). Although in my case it's with a YC88 rather than 73.

Have you tried switching between 'lightly loaded' Live Sets on the CK? I'm keen to know how the switching performs when you go between single-voice Live Sets, where the voices are assigned to a different Part in each.

I understand the limitations with switching between Live Sets when they use every part, plus effects - it would require lots of processing headroom that doesn't really fit the intended use of the CK, or the price bracket. (Even the Montage drops its SSS if you load patches up too heavily, and so does the YC if you try and make a second switch).

But seamless transition is very nice if you can make it work within reasonable limits.

The "SS" sound switching without the seamless carries any sustained notes over but has a quick blip in the transition whether it's a single or multi however if you keep the settings inside your live set all the same or similar then the transition remains decently smooth. At least you can plan for it. The more similar the instruments are such as from piano to EP it's not that noticeable. Since you can keep three at once you could keep the same instrument in each live set and then slide up the other 2 voices but that's a lot to remember to do. At least all the volume sliders are together unlike YC and the SKpro all across the surface. Plus sliders are more of a no-brainer (think about every dang mixing board ever made). Why the heck would you ever use rotary volume knobs and then spread them out all over the surface? Finally Yamaha figured that out after how many years? Same reason organ drawbars are drawbars. Imagine having to rotate dials instead of using drawbars on an organ. Even the EQ sliders are better than on YC however those you don't normally ride, you set it and forget it. The YC drawbars might be the greatest invention of our time.

Thanks 🙂

Sounds fairly reasonable. As a secondary keyboard, it wasn't a dealbreaker for me anyway, but it's always good to know what you're getting. On my Roland V-Combo, some transitions were so rough it sounded like someone had kicked the amp over 😀 it sounds a lot more refined than that.

Looking forward to getting it.

Sorry it was the CP40 I returned it was pretty sad. I never had the CP current line however the advertisement for CK claims it has voices taken from the CP and YC. However the CP only has 55 voices I think I read. The YC has only what as far a AWM?, excluding all the internal FM/DX generated voices let assume it's 100. That only adds up to 155 verses the CKs 360-ish. So where'd the rest come from?

Also I tried the speakers again but rapidly turned them back off going back to $4000 headphones. Okay I didn't actually pay $4000 but that's the retail on Focals. Not sure how those speakers were designed and keeping in mind I'm sort of a cheap, not overly critical audiophile but they are pretty poor. My keyboard was vibrating like a massage machine and the sound quality was not good. No fullness or nuance, all goodness was lost. I understand those are probably a last resort and probably only Bose could have made nothing sound like something in a space that can't be any larger than a tuna can. Let me warn everyone do not make your purchasing decision based on only using the onboard speakers. It was not as good as a Casio toy. Maybe mine are broken I don't know. It will work barely just for practicing but then you might become annoyed and turn it off. If your thigh or knee hurts then you can rest it there and get a nice massage. It reminded me of weedeating like afterwards when your hand continues to vibrate for days. Maybe I'm being unfair or mine is broken so someone else test it for us.

[quotePost id=121213]probably only Bose could have made nothing sound like something in a space that can't be any larger than a tuna can. Let me warn everyone do not make your purchasing decision based on only using the onboard speakers. [/quotePost]

Kind of amused to read this. I use a Bose Soundlink Color 2. The sound quality is not that bad and carries organ bass pretty decently. Easy to carry in my gig bag.

Even the drummer remarked, "Wow, that little speaker is loud." Yeah, so I can hear myself over your stinkin' din! 🙂 😀

-- pj

I spent some time comparing internal voices to YC but in essence those are the same level of quality samples. Perhaps some have been dumbed down or thinned out but I couldn't tell. On the CK the voices called strings 1 & 2 and orchestra 1 & 2 are all 4 identical. Not sure why must be an error but CK has a lot more strings even these being identical. Many of the voices with labeled numbering such as 1,2,3,4,5 etc. are variations (many brass and strings) of the same samples such as the attack or number of layers. YC doesn't have electric guitars so if you need these CK has enough. As I mentioned Choir 2 is really good and clean on CK whereas YC isn't very good with that hissing synth noise. Both have the "Air Choir" which I assume is supposed to hiss. In general, it has many more "Pads", Leads and "Chro Perc". Most voices with a "1" & "2" variation are considerably different in attack &/or tone. YC might only provide a singular option whereas CK provies two alternatives in many cases.

I'm undecided whether I will personally keep it. Portability matters not for me. The capability to play three non-organ voices or 6 using it with the YC might be the best option versus buying a second YC.

Out of curiosity I contacted Hammond concerning whether the SKpro sound set could ever be expanded with firmware and they said no. That's very sad because of the awesome capability to custom layer 4 internal voices (really waveforms) into a single live set voice making it possible to layer 10 voices. It's like a synthesizer capability. What good is that capability if you only have a very small waveform list that can't be expanded? Short sighted and kind of silly but at least SKpro has great choir and a pedal steel guitar. It has some great sounds but not very many in quantity.

If Hammond and Yamaha could develop that idea using each others capabilities you'd have a keeper. Far more difficult for Yamaha because the interface of what they call a "stage board" doesn't allow for internal layering of custom voices. Probably not enough power either and they don't really care about that offering. Hammond already offers the capability but can't add any new voices. Not sure why unless the memory is full or they never thought of that. I doubt they didn't think of that because Yamaha has been doing it for a long while now. If they have the physical slots and there's memory I don't know why unless the waveforms are hard programmed onto unaccessible chips. That's sort of dumb but probably cheaper to do. Firmware only addresses functionality but not waveforms? I'm not that technical to know or the guy was mistaken.

It would appear I have gone down another rabbit hole.

[quotePost id=121192]At least all the volume sliders are together unlike YC and the SKpro all across the surface. [/quotePost]
Yes, it's nice have the volumes and also the on-off switches for each section all together. Hammond at least got the latter right, as did the Vox Continental, and Roland VR09/VR730. On my Nord Stage 2 and 3, your hands have to fly all over if you want to, for example, switch from the organ sound to a piano sound, within a single program.

[quotePost id=121196] the advertisement for CK claims it has voices taken from the CP and YC. However the CP only has 55 voices I think I read. The YC has only what as far a AWM?, excluding all the internal FM/DX generated voices let assume it's 100. That only adds up to 155 verses the CKs 360-ish. So where'd the rest come from? [/quotePost]
CK has voices from the CP and YC, but it does not exclusively have sounds taken from those boards. I haven't looked into where the rest are from, but I would not be surprised to find them in the MODX, for example.

With the MODX+ offering 4 voice seamless SSS and 2227 waveforms and a touch screen and FM and AWM2 improved OS and a lot of Montage capabilities I'm rethinking the CK to be paired with YC over the MODX+. For $500 more I can get a lot of stuff and some of the CK is duplicated in the YC. Thus a combination of MODX+ with YC73 might be a lot more different since I don't need portability or batteries or cheap speakers either. I'll lose the one to one functionality but gain a boat load of other stuff. Not to mention I already also have the SKpro for a double organ so I'm not sure I need the CK anyway. I'm currently thinking the MODX+ but which sounds better? I had the Montage 88 a long time ago and sold it. I can't remember much about the quality of sounds but I seemed to prefer the stage boards which seemed a step up in quality but miles short in quantity. 2016 seems like an eternity ago. I don't suppose MODX+ sounds better than the original Montage or does it?

I see some conflicting information out there about MODX(original and plus)'s analog output stage. The FAQ for MODX claims MODX has PAC ("Pure Analog Circuit" ). The same FAQ also claims MODX has assignable outputs which it does not -- so there seems to be Montage cut/paste without proper editing.

I'm going to bet on MODX(including plus) not having PAC.

What's PAC? Well, to me it's mainly spending the time to design a good layout. This isn't so much about components as much as it is about component placement, geometries of the various voltage/ground planes, layer stackup, trace spacing/thickness, enclosure, etc. It may have taken a bunch of "spins" of the analog PCBs to get the final result dialed in just right.

There's a significant NRE cost in doing this and only premium products would have this level of "care". Otherwise, making this kind of investment may be "lost" for the target audience of the product where the cheaper development route would suffice.

I don't think MODX has "PAC". I think it has a well engineered analog output PCB but just done more conventionally.

I haven't spent much time on a MODX. I think those with a MODX(including plus) and a Montage are in a better position to chime in. They can run both boards through the same sound reinforcement and give opinions of what they hear.

From what I've gathered - and therefore this has a dose of speculation coming from me - I think the sound "quality" of Montage is better than MODX. I can tell you that's my impression of the Montage vs the Motif XF (the previous generation flagship). Motif XF is a premium board. It's that "style" of premium I think MODX has achieved. And I believe that Montage "bested" this has delivered a better sonic result (yes, I know - Montage came out first so technically MODX "worsted" Montage -- but I don't think that's a fair way to think about it. Wrong connotation. I think MODX is great and Montage is noticeably a smidge better). I'd hope someone with both boards would give a more informed opinion about their own gear.

All that aside - I thought part of the reason you ditched Montage was because it was overly complicated. Whatever Montage/MODX's usage difficulty level is -- it hasn't changed (isn't going to change either). Just a warning about going back to the plate. Same pitcher - might be the same outcome.

I think there's something to be said about keeping gear around that makes you want to use it rather than gear that makes you not want to use it ("Madden" observation).

I had the Montage 88 and it was a monster and was collecting dust. Was hoping MODX+ was simpler (obviously lots cheaper for the 6 and much lighter) or at least more sound choices even if nothing more than pairing to the YC for selections but sound quality matters. I am familiar with it and yes typically spent more time being frustrated but now only want it for the infinite palette of sounds.

I do have the Fantom and played through it's 3,500? voices and I wonder what you are hitting on is potentially the problem with their design. Fantom is so easy to use I never opened the manual BTW. BUT using my "$4000" headphones for critical listening, with Yamaha for a comparison, even with the YC & CK sounded smoother and more pleasant or realistic to my ears. I had a very difficult time hearing real instruments in the Fantom. I mean it sounded like a piano and string and brass etc. but harsh and not exactly right however the guts are processing and delivering the analog signal. I'm a brass player so I can tell. The choir sounded like real voices. Of course they are great in other areas such as drums/bass and pads, synths, bells etc. I'm not sure what their sound engines are (I know the names) but they do mention adding sampling to the Z-core in version 2.0 so obviously the choir was real humans.

I'm betting at least the MODX+ sounds better but that's a good point about PAC. However I doubt that YC has PAC or does it? Something sounds just a tiny bit better on YC but could be the effects section, I'd need to go to raw comparisons. Maybe nothing has been dumbed down on CK but something had to be to a degree. Still sounds great but I'm sure there's no PAC on CK. Even so I sounds more inviting than does the Fantom and not having the Montage or MODX+ I can't compare directly. I just know it hurt my ears last night on most of the acoustic instruments which surprised me. They sounded robotic or mechanical through my headphones. My test goes something like this when you play a chord and the sound hits your ears and if it's great you can't stop playing it or you press the button to proceed to the next voice. I kept proceeding a lot. It's probably not a mystery that Yamaha does acoustic better. Getting the electronic nuance out of the final product is probably hard to achieve. Most DACs can run from $100 to $50,000 and the good ones typically around $500 to $900 depending on features. How much money can a company spend on getting out the purest analog signal without blowing the product budget? That's very curious.

If I could connect to a MODX+ at the moment I could at least concerning the realism maybe not the circuits initially but if I can't stop playing the voice then it's a good one whatever is going on behind the scenes (no pun intended) to produce the final result. True that the CK has X number of YC voices and FM/DX which I don't necessarily need so however many remain from the CP? I don't need pipes because I have the SKpro and I don't need the organ section either. So assuming it 100 voices remaining is that worth $1,000? Or getting 2227 voices for $1,500 or whatever my guy can pull on the "strings" probably 10% discount. $10 a voice vs 67 cents if nothing more than using it as a module. Only question is sound quality. MODX+ should be pretty good even without the PAC? Another unknown is the Montage replacement ETA. Could just wait for that and do nothing. I guess it's been 4 years since I had the Montage. Can't remember much about the sound but I read through the data list and noticed some of the same CK voices.

Speaking generally but a "STAGE BOARD", CP1 for example, should realistically receive better sounds than the synthesizer because of the reason it exists and is so limited. Not sure that's always true but the synthesizer's focus is on synthesis (deep diving and unlimited options) not necessarily perfectly authentic acoustic reproduction. Obviously the one-to-one UI relationship being the biggest draw. Crossovers exist like sharing the same piano samples but stage should be the most realistic over the extremely limited selection of voices on a stage. After stating this it's probably untrue which brings up my other confusion why a stage is only allowed to have less than 360 voices if you are lucky and typically only a few such as CP1. CP had 55? I mean we can theoretically have a stage board with 2000 voices inside but the assumption is you don't need that many or just buy a "module" MODX+. So if price matters not do I just find a good used Montage 6 or does MODX+ carry any advantage other than weight?

IF I realize I made an error in writing and I change that error it kicks me out as spam. Thus I have to write this explanation for it to get accepted again. What's up with this?

That white version is much, much better. I remember the black or dark buttons on black in the dark was hard to distinguish. Might look around for a white Montage 6 until Montage 2 comes out.

I think if you're new to stage boards or decided you want one and need portability, battery and speakers and one-to-one and great sound options, layering, organs, surface controls, bluetooth, A/D, easy UI etc. don't buy a $400 to $700 portable toy, just save up and get the CK61. Might eventually pick one up for $900 but what you are getting is most everything you could want for a long while. I assume it firmware upgradable or voice expandable but not sure about that.

MODX has the same structure and UI as Montage. There are a few minor differences to make up for the lack of LED feedback and buttons. However, I'd say the complexity for 99% of anything you'd do is identical between the two.