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Balanced Outputs

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 Tony
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I am using the non-balanced line outputs left and right on my CP4. The cable run length to my small mixer is very short but the mixer will both accept balanced or unbalanced connections. What are the main advantages of choosing balanced outs instead? Will I hear better sound or will the sound be less liable to any interference?

 
Posted : 01/04/2015 3:43 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Unbalanced connections are for exactly how you are using them - short cable-run situations.
Balanced connections are for when you need to run long cable-runs - they allow you to connect without a DI box.

The longer an unbalanced cable, the more it acts like an antenna - so you want to, whenever possible, avoid long unbalanced cable runs. "Long" is relative but in general is considered over 20 feet. If you are running short unbalanced (signal) cables to your mixer - this fine. While some "golden ears" will tell you they can hear a difference - mere mortal humans should not be able to tell the difference between balanced and unbalanced cabling when used properly. (I never doubt those who say they can hear a difference - because it is the best way to avoid shouting matches and arguments). But working short unbalanced cables will serve you well.

A balanced cable will have three wires... one positive, one negative and one the ground. Any noise that enters the wires (like radio interference) will enter both the positive and negative wires, and is cancelled at the cable end and completely eliminated. This is how it counteracts the tendency of long cables becoming great antennas for radio signals.

Take care of your cables (unbalanced or balanced) - if you wind them up by bending them around your elbow... STOP! don't do that. Learn how to create circular loops with your cables. You'd be amazed at how many musicians, in a hurry, wrap their cables as if they are not susceptible to damage - by wrapping them over their elbow they eventually make small breaks in the cooper wire that eventually will reduce the cables effectiveness. Circular looping of the cables (like a lasso) and use of cable ties - will give you years and years of use out of your cables and great sound - balanced or unbalanced.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 02/04/2015 12:35 am
 Tony
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks for very helpful reply. I am always careful to coil cables carefully - good habit for all musicians to have to look after their cables. My C4 output cable run is very short so I'll stick to my unbalanced connection for now.

 
Posted : 02/04/2015 12:32 pm
 Ron
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

I have never been totally satisfied with my keyboard running through the PA system. I know it will not sound as good as through headphones but something is missing.
In reading this post as well as others on this subject I think I am seeing what I need to do.

My new CP4 is arriving tomorrow and I want it to sound live as amazing as it can. We have an Allen & Heath PA28 board. Are you saying the correct way to run my CP4 is 1/4" unbalanced outputs to the stereo input channel of the mixer? Would there be a way to utilize the XLR outs and achieve the same result? In the past we used the XLR outs from the keyboard into the snake (one cable per channel) and then panned hard left one channel and hard right the other channel.

Thanks.

 
Posted : 29/12/2015 6:20 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

You can connect your CP4 Stage using either XLR cables or 1/4" TS instrument cables, your choice.
Maintain stereo by panning your channels hard left and hard right.

 
Posted : 30/12/2015 5:25 am
 Tony
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

I notice you are using an AH board. When I first bought an AH 10FX board I "lost" the great CP-4 stereo piano sound. I eventually realized that I had the "listen" buttons pressed to monitor with phones and AH told me that this sums the input from stereo to mono so my efforts to keep left and right separate were being thwarted. Without the buttons pressed plus left panned right, right panned left, the sound is maintained.

Tony

 
Posted : 30/12/2015 12:08 pm
 Ron
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Thank you Bad Mister and Tony. I really like running to the stereo channels vs. running two channels panned left and right. I'll do both and see if there is a difference in sound quality. I just wonder is it worth buying new cables (XLR female to TRS) to use vs. 1/4" unbalanced. I suppose the sound would be about the same.

 
Posted : 30/12/2015 2:03 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

There will be no difference. A single Stereo channel on a mixer is the equivalent of two mono channels with one panned hard left and the other hard right respectively. It simply is a matter of convenience -since when used on a stereo source you will typically match settings (levels, EQ, etc.) on the two channels anyway. Stereo channels are included on most modern mixers to match the realization that at least some of the input sources will utilize stereo. Even if the difference could be measured, as a human, you will not be able to tell the difference on a quality mixer.

The sonic difference between using XLR and 1/4" again is minuscule (in spite of urban legends)... It simply makes sense, when long cable runs are required, to use balanced XLR because it eliminates RF interference. Unbalanced cables are just as "professional" as balanced cables... The "professional" is the person or persons using them... Knowing that an unbalanced cable becomes an antenna after a certain length, is the reason balanced connections are used. Cables are susceptible to radio frequency interference... Be they balanced or unbalanced. The three cables in the balanced cable allows external radio frequencies to be cancelled when the signals arrive at the destination.

Again RF interference is only a serious issue with long cable runs (or in 'abused' cables). Never buy those curly TS (guitar) cables... They are longer than you think and can double as great radio antenna.

Cable runs of 6, 10 and even 20ft unbalanced are usually fine, but once you reach 20ft and beyond, expect RF interference becoming an issue. At that point, use the balanced output, or a short run unbalanced to DI boxes and balanced from there to the mixer. Your mileage can vary, that's why you use your ears. The "professional" knows what to do when the conditions present an issue.

 
Posted : 30/12/2015 3:51 pm
 Ron
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Every keyboard player should bookmark this response. I too was under the impression that the XLR outs would provide a stronger, "cleaner" signal and are preferred if the keyboard has XLR outs. I look forward to the next gig!

 
Posted : 30/12/2015 6:00 pm
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