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Topic starter
Since past October I'm a very happy owner of a CP4, having sold my CP300 for something a bit newer, and lighter…
One issue: I have noticed the general tuning of the A.PIANO and E.PIANO samples to be quite different. By themselves these samples are really great: beautiful lush grands and real vintage e-pianos. But when layered their mutual tuning is problematic in higher registers. All is fine when playing in the middle range of the keyboard but in the upper register things get painfully out of tune. A high G (2,5 octaves above middle C) on the E.PIANO is about 2.5Hz low compared to the same note of the A.PIANO, and it gets worse as you play further up. The only way I have found to correct this is to de-tune the E.PIANO up by 2.5Hz or so in "part edit". But then the tuning in the middle register will suffer, obviously. Adding a fair amount of phasing effect will conceal the problem somewhat but that's not always what you want.
I've heard this is a common issue when layering acoustic and electric pianos on some stage pianos, but I have never found it to be this extreme. It certainly didn't bother me on the CP300. Perhaps the sheer quality & 'realism' of the CP4 samples (beautifully 'stretched' tuning on the grands but also real 'vintage tuning' on the e-pianos) now reveals this as a problem (at least to me).
Layering of grands with e-pianos is something I use a lot, in all registers of the instrument. It's unfortunate that I cannot use it in the higher register on the CP4 (without hurting my ears). By the way, the "Micro tuning" has no bearing on all of this, both A.PIANO and E.PIANO are in the "equal" mode.
I wonder if Yamaha would consider a slight adjustment to the tuning of the E.PIANO to make a better 'match' with the A.PIANO in higher registers.
Posted : 11/02/2015 1:28 pm
Hi Hans! Thanks for the suggestion.
I wonder if Yamaha would consider a slight adjustment to the tuning of the E.PIANO to make a better 'match' with the A.PIANO in higher registers.
I believe this was already considered and provided for in the CP4 Stage.... Not by a change in the E.PIANO, but to the acoustic and electro-acoustic piano models.
You are offered both "stretched tuned" and straight/non-stretched tuned acoustic piano Voices (referred to as "Fl" or "flat tuned" ) for each of the acoustic piano modeled. (There is even a "Fl" version of the CP88 model). If you layer a "stretched tuned" piano Voice on top of a straight tuned Electric Piano you will experience what you have observed. The beating will be profound at the extreme edges.
If this bothers you (and it should), substitute the version of the acoustic piano Voice you are using: the CFX, the CFIIIS, or the S6; each of these modeled acoustic piano has 15 variations.... Those with "Fl" in the Voice Name will layer better with your selected E. Piano Voice... Which is not stretched tuned.
(The CP88 does not have as many variations as the fully acoustic models, but has a non-stretched tuned version as Voice 04: CP88 Fl)
So for example if you've been using the Voice: 01: CFX St to build your layer, substitute the Voice: 10: CFX StFl the flat tuned version of the CFX data.
If you were using the stretched tuned 01: CFIIIS St substitute the flat tuned Voice: 10: CFIIIS StFl
If you were using the stretched tuned 01: S6 St substitute the flat tuned Voice: 10: S6 StFl
At Yamaha we've been manufacturing acoustic pianos since the turn of the 20th century (1900). The stretched tuned piano is preferred by many players for its singing tone - for your purpose, layering with a second 88 note instrument, the non-stretched tune (Fl) versions were provided.
Hope that helps. Enjoy your CP4 Stage.
Posted : 11/02/2015 3:19 pm
Topic starter
Thank you, that really clarifies it for me! I'm not surprised actually that a good amount of thought went into this (Yamaha are my favorite stage pianos precisely because of all their acoustic piano expertise), I just hadn't found the logic or layout of it, nor had I discovered that "Fl" stands for "flat tuned". By the way is the 01: CFX St an exact copy of the 10: CFX StFl sample, apart from its tuning?
Many thanks again, I will build my layers of A.PIANOs & E.PIANOs using the non-stretched tuned acoustic piano voices from now on, and use the stretched piano voices for solo playing.
Posted : 11/02/2015 11:32 pm
Thank you, that really clarifies it for me! I'm not surprised actually that a good amount of thought went into this (Yamaha are my favorite stage pianos precisely because of all their acoustic piano expertise), I just hadn't found the logic or layout of it, nor had I discovered that "Fl" stands for "flat tuned". By the way is the 01: CFX St an exact copy of the 10: CFX StFl sample, apart from its tuning?
You're quite welcome. Yes, the difference between the "CFX St" model and the "CFX StFl" model, is the tuning of the source piano.
flat ................With the Flat curve, the frequency (in Hertz) doubles for each octave increment between keys across the entire keyboard.
stretch ..........The Stretch curve models the characteristic response of an acoustic piano. When compared with the Flat curve, lower keys are tuned slightly flatter; higher keys, slightly sharper.
Posted : 12/02/2015 10:24 am
