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PLG150-VL Internal Bank

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 Zach
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Hello,

My previous post about calibrating a breath controller led me to the previously unknown fact that there are 64 board voices on my PLG150-VL I'm not taking advantage of. This whole time I thought I could only have 6 custom voices but, like the VL70-m, there is an "internal" bank (of 64) as well as a custom bank (of 6). According to the VL70m documentation, the 6 custom voices are what are edited by the VL visual editor, while the internal bank voices are edited from the panel of the VL70m. Obviously there is no front panel of the PLG, and I know that effects will be at host voice level, but how can I fill up the internal bank of the PLG150-VL? Do I need a VL70m to send bulk out? Any VL70m editors/librarians that can help? If I do use this bank, are they recalled with an auto load plug in bulk file a la the custom bank? I love discovering new useful things about my beloved S90 ES so any info would be greatly valued. Thanks!

 
Posted : 11/12/2015 8:56 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Attached is an article from yester-year on getting started with the PLG150-VL it should help you with getting access to all the banks of sounds when using the Board in a Modular Synthesis Plugin Synthesizer...

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 5:13 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Attached is an article from yester-year on getting started with the PLG150-VL it should help you with getting access to all the banks of sounds when using the VL Board in a Modular Synthesis Plugin Synthesizer...

Attached files

PLG150VL_Motif.zip (82.4 KB) 

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 5:14 am
 Zach
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Thanks Bad Mister for the attachment. I do have that documentation on my computer but a long time ago glossed over the parts about the RAM internal bank (I think because it sounds like the description of a user plug-in voice other than effects -- see below). I understand that a PluginBulkx file will restore both the custom bank (033/002) and the internal bank (033/003). But here's what I don't fully understand:

"The bank 033/003 is an Internal board RAM bank that will hold 64 of your favorite VL sounds (made from the preset VL elements and any of your 6 custom board elements). You can load in bulks created in the VL70-m tone generator (an equivalent tone engine)... These 64 Internal locations are for your favorite setups. As you find a preset that you enjoy playing you will want to refine the controller setups that help you ‘perform’ the sound – store your controller tweaks to voice locations in the 033/003 bank."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can still only store 6 user-made VL elements in the custom bank. It sounds like the internal bank can contain pseudo plug-in voices - in other words, even though they're technically board voices, each points at a VL element from the first three banks (2 presets and 1 custom) and has its own control sets but no effects? Then what happens if I create a host plug-in voice that uses as an element a board voice from 033/003? Obviously I can add effects, but what about control sets at the host voice level? Do they override the controller setups programmed into the internal bank board voice or just add to them? In your opinion, is it worthwhile to utilize this internal bank (assuming I can send bulks to it) in an S90ES or does the idea of a S90ES user plug-in voice make the VL70-m-compatible voice bank unnecessary?

Thanks again!

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 2:32 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can still only store 6 user-made VL elements in the custom bank.

Yes, only 6 Custom VL Elements (that is all that the PLG150-VL board has room for)

I also located this tutorial with example banks from 2003 - although for the Motif ES, everything here can apply to your S90 ES (which can read data made for the Motif ES). Please forgive any URL links in the articles, that may have long since been broken - it has been 12 years!!! Back then YamahaSynth was a totally different site.

You'll need the S90 ES Editors and Studio Manager - but you should still be able to access this data. (Apologies, if that is not the case) but these were some of my favorite VL sounds from back then. Please Enjoy.

I think this should probably answer the rest of your questions, as well. If not, let me know. Its been a while since I've managed this data -but fortunately... I keep my feathers (files) numbered for just such an occasion

Let me know.

In your opinion, is it worthwhile to utilize this internal bank (assuming I can send bulks to it) in an S90ES or does the idea of a S90ES user plug-in voice make the VL70-m-compatible voice bank unnecessary?

I believe this VL70-m compatible bank was provided for those who had specifically programmed their controllers for the rack unit and want to transfer that to another Modular Synthesis Plugin Synthesizer. Convenience for VL70-m owner's As you realize most of programming with VL is really about customizing the CONTROLLERS to how much energy or motion you must apply to get the desired result. Do not view these in the same light as the 6 Custom VL locations... The S90ES User Plug-in Voice does, indeed, make these unnecessary...

Attached files

PowerUserVL1.zip (762.8 KB) 

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 2:56 pm
 Zach
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Thanks again for the good info. I made use of that power pack tutorial back in '06 to learn about the VL editor and that's how I was able to fill up my 6 custom bank locations. I guess upon reading it that long ago I mistakenly equated the bank of 64 Vl70m voices with the 64 user plug in voices. Upon coming across it again, I thought maybe I could have more VL elements but edited/created with a VL70m editor as opposed to the VL visual editor. Glad to hear I haven't been missing out on too much this whole time.

One last question remains though (and perhaps this should a different thread): now that I have my breath controller up and running again, is there any way to have the S90 ES remember which PLG bank I chose previously in Voice Mode? I would rather not have to scroll to PRE3 every time. Obviously, not a huge issue, but the last thing I was curious about. Also, sometimes upon changing PLG banks in Voice Mode it automatically goes back to Play (F1) and sometimes it doesn't (stays in Bank F2). Any way to control this? Thanks again!

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 6:29 pm
Rudy
 Rudy
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New Member
 

Hi all

Just to inform you that I'm close to release a new editor for the VL70m. This editor works on WINDOWS and MAC and is able to edit indepth the VL70m-Voices. Additionally it works with the PLGVL cards...I have 3 PLG100VL cards stored in my S90....

My next step is to build an editor for the VL1.

More information on http://vl70m-wizard.blogspot.be/

rgds
Rudy

 
Posted : 18/12/2015 11:35 am
 Zach
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Topic starter
 

Thanks Rudy,

Wow that looks amazing! Soo much more than what the VL Visual Editor can offer - does that mean that the PLG-VLs can do more than what I've been able to tweak, or is a lot of that functionality relevant only to the VL70-m? I know there were a few effects-related parameters in the VL VIsual Editor that didn't apply to PLGs, but all those element controllers look deliciously tweakable - from this forum topic, I had thought I wasn't missing out on too much by relying only on the 6 Custom VL board voices and the VL Visual Editor, but if all those (or most of those) parameters affect the PLG VL custom voices, this is a must-buy for me. Please keep me posted, looks great!

 
Posted : 23/12/2015 3:50 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

The VL Visual Editor is like the light version of the editor (VL EXPERT EDITOR). The Yamaha VL Expert Editor allowed for in depth programming.

The difference is this: with the Visual Editor you are dealing with basic layman's terms and it is virtually impossible to do what we call "break the horn".
As every horn player knows, if you ding the instrument it will no longer support notes properly. Drop a trumpet and crease the metal, the horn just simply will no longer support a musical tone. Trust me, it is fairly easy to "ding" the instrument if you are not careful.

The VISUAL EDITOR allows you to edit without making the instrument unplayable. Trust me it is very easy to "break the horn"

The Editor shown here looks in depth, and makes me want to get back into programming VL... But know this with this comes great potential to "break the horn" - I can give you another example...
A pipe can support a musical tone when air molecules are set in motion with it. The easiest tone to get is the Fundamental. When you drill the first hole to allow you shorten the active length, it must be mathematically related to entire length in order to play in tune. The mathematical relationships are a key (no pun intended). Drill that second hole incorrectly you've broken the horn. You have turned that hunk of brass into junk.

So the tuning of an instrument is wholly dependent on the mathematics. With VL, for example, a really good trumpet will be in unable to support the fundamental... Trumpets lowest note is the second harmonic (one octave above the fundamental) - it's funny as you play VL that the notes below Bb are completely unstable... Because a trumpet cannot support notes below the second harmonic.

So programming VL is unlike programming any synthesizer you've ever programmed. A degree in acoustics is helpful... Or at least an understanding of musical acoustics and mathematics. not for the meek or casual programmer... There is no luck involved... All parameters are interactive, all ranges of instruments are limited by the acoustical math that supports it. Starting from scratch ... It could be days before you can get a single tone. And weeks before you get it to play across an octave. Then there is the tuning, ah, yes, the tuning.

Congrats to Rudy for putting together what looks to be a serious attempt at an 'expert' editor.

There was no bigger fan of VL than yours truly... I found it expressive beyond any keyboard instrument I've ever played. And I was fortunate to get to 'hang out' a bit with the geniuses that developed this technology (Stanford's Dr. Julius O. Smith, and Yamaha's Toshifumi Kunimoto). And some of the genius programmer's here in the US who attempted to teach some of us about sound, acoustics, and how musical tones work.

I now understand how Bernoulli's principle works to make airplanes fly and make saxophones work!

Let us know how it goes Rudy! And congrats! Good to know there are still fans of the VL out there!

 
Posted : 23/12/2015 1:30 pm
 Zach
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Topic starter
 

I've never heard of this VL Expert Editor. Some Google searching led me to an old win 3.1 program that I haven't tried installing in my Win7 machine yet (maybe Rudy's editor will be released before I get it up and running). Does the expert editor show up in studio manager like the visual editor? My interest is very picqued right now! (I'm an engineer and used to teach physics, can't say I'm an acoustics expert but I love having fine control over everything so I think the expert editor is right up my alley.)

Thanks again!

 
Posted : 23/12/2015 3:46 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I've long ago lost touch with the Yamaha VL Expert Editor (it was a Macintosh Editor). You should begin your search through "the Patchman". Matt has been the unofficial keeper of the flame and has posted the old training guide we used when developing VL Voices (written by Dr. Manny Fernandez - one of those genius FM/VL programmers).

Here's a link: VL Programming Guide

It mentions the Guide covers VL version 1, and not any of the version 2 parameters... To illustrate how deep-end-of-the-pool VL programming was... Version 2 made a significant improvement in the behavior of reed emulations (single reed and lip reeds in particular) as it added the mathematics of the small difference in diameter of the mouthpiece when inserted inside the horn... The mouthpiece diameter is ever so slightly smaller than the main pipe.

When explained to us, the "barrel" section of the clarinet is designed to eliminate this diameter difference in connecting the mouthpiece to the main pipe chamber, but in a trumpet, for example, that few mm difference is very important to the resulting sound and the behavior. Go figure. So I remember them making a big deal about this programmable "barrel"... Connecting the mouthpiece to the main pipe!!!

Best of luck. I can make no promises but I will inquire (on this side) what, if anything remains of the VL Expert Editor... It predates Studio Manager... The VL Visual Editor and the VL70-m remained around and made it into the 21st Century... So no I don't think it ever had any compatibility with the Studio Manager.

If anyone knows about running it today, I'd start by contacting Matt at Patchman! He'll be happy to hear from you.

 
Posted : 23/12/2015 6:08 pm
 Rudy
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Hi All.....hereby an important update on the VL-Wizard (VL70m editor)

YES...Beta testing is finished, pre-release version is distributed. Now I'm working hard on preparing everything (support, documentation, videos) for the officially release of the new VL70m editor, planned for April. More information on my personal blog http://vl70m-wizard.blogspot.be/. Subscription can start now...

Message to Bad Mister...
many thanks for your kind words...appreciated... As you pointed out, the VL-Wizard is entirely based on the very original Yamaha expert editor. I kindly requested approval from Mr.Toshifumi Kunimoto before I started this "marathon" project and was very happy to receive his "green-light" to reverse-engineer the legacy software. During my free-time I work on this and got deeper and deeper into the secrets of this amazing innovative and addictive synth. I also have the auto-tuning and keyscale/breakpoint editing working....which was not easy at all....

VL70m/PLGVL owners should not waste their energy anymore in getting the legacy software to work. Instead they can prepare by reading the basics of Physical modelling of musical instruments. This way they will get faster familiar with the terms used in the VL-Wizard software.

I also want to mention that the guidelines of Manny Fernandez inspired me to get deeper into the VL70m, he helped me to get in touch with Mr.Toshifumi Kunimoto and I'm very thankful for this...I took the freedom to incorporate his clear guidelines in the parameter tooltips of the VL-Wizard and included his tutorial voices. Also the Yamaha Visual Editor template voices are included...So, people who want to start constructing their own voices will get a quick start, while people who want to get rolling immediately can use great voice libraries from Bill Bush, Dan Powell, Wietze Krikke, (converted from the VL1 synths)... I have today users construction new voices and libraries...

O, yes..., the VL-Wizard is tested by EX5 users, S90 users etc...feature to store into CST and INT slots is available..

I strongly believe that my VL-Wizard software will re-energize the life of VL70m...and hope to team-up one of these days with Yamaha....

Rudy
from Belgium

 
Posted : 01/03/2016 4:50 pm
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