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Sampling Motif ES - Can I use the Sequencer as a MIDI Controller to trigger/play VST and provide audio to sample?

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thomas
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In pattern mode, I recorded several phrases using various Motif voices across the 16 available tracks. I reserved one track to send MIDI to trigger and play a VST instrument on my laptop which then returns as audio to my motif through my audio interface. To avoid the need to always connect my laptop and interface to add the VST to my Motif music, I would like to sample the audio created from the VST to create user voices and then add/loop them to my mix where needed. QUESTION: Can the sequencer and sampler run together to allow me to press play (in the sequencer) and then at the same time cause the sampler to begin to sample what the sequencer plays from my VST track ? Or is it not possible for the sequencer to run and play what I want to sample?

 
Posted : 09/12/2015 9:43 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

QUESTION: Can the sequencer and sampler run together to allow me to press play (in the sequencer) and then at the same time cause the sampler to begin to sample what the sequencer plays from my VST track ?

Yes. That is what the INTEGRATED SAMPLING SEQUENCER does. It allows you to record (sample) audio in sync with the Motif ES's own sequencer. You must designate a Track for the placement of the USER SAMPLE VOICE which will automatically contain the audio that you route there via the Sample Setup process.

When you press the [INTEGRATED SAMPLING] button you can setup and use RECORD TYPE = "sample+note". This allows the Motif ES sequencer to document the IN and OUT points and creates a MIDI NOTE event to accurately playback your recorded audio. The INPUT SOURCE for the audio can be the AD INPUT.

Since you are not using the Motif ES as your audio interface (and you don't say what audio interface you are using we will leave that devices setup to you)... Simply connect the audio outputs from your external audio interface to the A/D INPUT jacks on the back panel of the Motif ES - IMPORTANT: you will need to monitor this transfer via headphones connected to the Motif ES. You will also need to isolate just the audio returning from your VST (which you also don't mention) so that the only audio being sampled is the audio of the unnamed VST. You do this by simply MUTING all other tracks (all except the track triggering the VST) during this transfer. The only thing you will hear during the audio transfer is the audio generated by the VST. (The Motif will handle the synchronization) - it will be set to SLAVE to your DAW's MIDI CLOCK OUT. You don't tell us what DAW so we will leave that setup to you as well.

In the [INTEGRATED SAMPLING] > SAMPLE SETUP process you want to set the TRIGGER MODE = MEASURE. This will allow you to set the exact PUNCH IN and PUNCH OUT measure points of the sampler. Remember, SAMPLING requires you define both the START and END POINTS. Once setup this will be handled all automatically by the Integrated Sampling Sequencer.

Or is it not possible for the sequencer to run and play what I want to sample?

Is possible, in fact: This is one of the key features that made the Motif-series one of the most successful pro workstation keyboards of all time!

If you require more information - please provide more information.

 
Posted : 10/12/2015 12:19 pm
thomas
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Let me fill in some blanks about the remaining parts to my set up; Steinberg UR 22 interface and Cubase DAW. The VST I am sampling is STRUM-GS2. I read the materials you sent and they took me pretty far but am now stuck....To clarify, in pattern mode, through the ES sequencer, I recorded on track 16 all my MIDI instructions for STRUM to produce guitar strumming parts to add to my mix. I then configured MIDI to sent over the USB only on this track 16. I have different phrases recorded throughout the various sections of my pattern. I then allow Cubase to play the audio generated back to my Motif though my A/D Inputs. Now I am trying to sample each of these phrases to an empty track 15 in my Pattern. I thought (hope) I could map each phrase to a different note on Track 15 then-do my ES sequencer recording to choose the corresponding note from Track 15 to add the correct STRUM sample to each pattern section. I put(sampled) the first phrase in on note C3 then navigated out of the integrated sampler back to pattern mode and vuola...I do find my phrase on track 15 - C3. So far so good......then I go back to the integrated sampler to add another phrase to a different note - C#3. When I then return to pattern mode I do find it on Track 15 C#3 BUT my C3 phrase is gone. It seems to only keep (on my track 15) the last sample. Now I can find my other samples (waveforms) by navigating through the integrated sampler edit mode..but they are just sitting there unattached to my pattern - track 15. Is it possible to get them all attached to my pattern on different notes in Track 15?. If it matters - the phrases I need to sample (only 4) range in length between 8, 16 and 32 bars. That's it.

 
Posted : 17/12/2015 4:34 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Please verify that your Integrated Sampling Recod Type is set to "sample+note". That will ensure that the trigger note to playback your initial recording is written into a Track 15. If your Type is set to just "sample" no Note-On data will be placed on the track... Your audio sample will be recorded - it's just that no Midi event will be automatically placed to trigger playback... You can manually place the event but it's much better to have the ISS do it for you.

 
Posted : 17/12/2015 9:17 pm
thomas
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Yes....I am using sample+note. Let me take a step back to ask..if I sample through the integrated sequencer (ISS) using measure setting to sample audio (STRUM phrase) do I then need to go back to pattern mode, start the sequencer (not ISS) and then play (and hold) the note where I placed the sample? First I thought yes, but it seems as if the ISS does both in the one (prior) step. It puts a note on in the selected; 1) track and 2) section and keeps it on for the length I chose in my measure setting. This all seems to be saved so long as I save the mix and save the pattern to external memory. BUT......I am only able to trigger play during the keyboard, in pattern mode, of the last sample. The only way to hear the prior samples is to start the sequencer and select the pattern sections that I had selected during my use of ISS of each audio. If this is correct then how can I place these samples/waves on additional locations throughout the sections of my pattern? Do I use ISS for every spot (event)? I didn't want to create a new wave/sample for every event. Rather, I was looking for the simplest way to place more note-on midi data to trigger the same wave/sample on more spots?

 
Posted : 18/12/2015 4:04 pm
thomas
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Bad Mister, I found out how to play all my samples on the keyboard....they can only trigger them from the keyboard under the specific section and track where I recorded then with the ISS. I thought they could all be triggered from the keyboard under any section, so long as I have selected the same track I used during ISS. Not so. I guess it has to be that way because if I can play (can use keyboard to trigger) them all under the same section and track, that means there is note-on triggering then all to play in that section and track which I don't want. I guess that is one of the differences between a sample voice and a user voice. I am guessing that if I move all the samples to create a single user voice then, they reside outside my mix and then its up to me to add them wherever needed. Don't know it I got it straight or whether that is the best approach. So, I am still left with the question how best to insert and use the same samples in different places throughout my pattern sections. I await (and really appreciate) your help!!!

 
Posted : 18/12/2015 6:54 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

If you use "sample+note" the ISS will automatically place the NOTE-ON event with the exact duration (GATE) to make the audio playback properly. It literally uses the IN and OUT point of your recording to create this data. So when you sample in PATTERN mode, you should use the TRIGGER MODE = MEAS (measure). Since you are doing this in PATTERN mode, the NOTE-ON will simply be the entire length of Phrase, and the Phrase the entire length of the Section.

Set the IN and OUT point to the Length of the Section - you will notice that you cannot make it longer than the current Section.

If you sample in SECTION A, the ISS will create a USER SAMPLE VOICE for Section A. It will memorize what VOICE was there when the phrase was created. This is necessary (if you think about it) Of course it has to, otherwise your audio would quickly be separated from the MIDI data used to trigger it (and this, in some instances, would be fatal – NOT necessarily in your situation where you are simply doing one short recording the full length of the Phrase… but imagine punching in and out several times or imagine multiple Sections where the note C3 was the target.

If you sample into another SECTION the ISS will create another USER SAMPLE VOICE for that SECTION and it will memorize what VOICE was there when the phrase was created. That’s what it does automatically, you can (of course) change this.

Now 10 years ago I could remember whether there is any help for creating your own USER VOICE containing all your samples - certainly in the XS and XF - a function called CONVERT VOICE was implemented to do just this. So the work around in the ES may indeed be manually placing all the AUDIO samples in the same VOICE (this can be done by EDITING in the ISS area). This should not be difficult for you since each Guitar Phrase you are recording is simply going to last the length of the Section. So you should be able to work it out manually.

Or ask yourself, "Do I need to do the sampling in PATTERN Mode?" or might it not be better to CONVERT to linear SONG and THEN do my sampling there?
This, only you can answer - because each project can have a different workflow (and for what you may deem a good reason). Either way, since in later models this very thing was addressed with the CONVERT VOICE function, you may well have to manually assemble your audio clips into a single USER VOICE>

You will find functions in the INTEGRATED SAMPLING area that allow you to MOVE and COPY audio where you will need it. Then creating the NOTE-ON data should (again) in your case, be simple because the length is a KNOWN ENTITY (it is not always).

Sorry I no longer have an ES around here to step you through it – but if you get stuck post back here, or call the Customer Support line at Yamaha (they still have one around and can help you through it).

 
Posted : 19/12/2015 1:16 pm
thomas
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Having thought more about it, I don't think I really need to assign all my samples to a voice, not for simple phrase samples for mixes. KISS..... I think I get everything I need using sample voices. My workflow for pattern mode is song architecture..each section = each chorus, verse, etc...when I have a rough mix with all the pieces I create a chain, then continue editing and listening thru. I will now sample to add a little something extra like a uke or STRUM VST phrases. Next I fine tune thru my dynamics, then convert to song where I mute and perform lead live. You mentioned, but I don't know how or if I need to learn more about how to move or copy samples using these functions thru the ISS mode. Instead, can't I can copy and move samples in pattern mode from one section to another, just like patches? When I insert samples as phrases in a pattern aren't they assigned a user patch / phrase, just like onboard voices? I tried a simple track copy of what I think was my sample-user phrase and although it assigns a new user phrase to the copied sample, it seems to be the same sample like I want. I don't know if its creating another identical sample or just creating another note-on instruction to play the same sample on the same keybank on another section. As long as I don't run out of memory, I guess I shouldn't care, right? I am struggling a bit to understand the filing system and relationships between waveforms, waves and the actual sampled audio I originally recorded. I couldn't find any screen to tell me what waveform and wave I have connected to the keybanks on my various sample track and sections where my note-on data is assigned. When I did my pattern track copy of my sample then returned to ISS edit (or job) mode to check, I found a new waveform added with an existing wave and the same keybank. I guess if I checked every time I added or copied, I could figure it out. Now how do I remember...... Am I correct that you can re-name waveforms but not waves?

 
Posted : 20/12/2015 2:27 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Waveforms is the term that refers to your audio plus the parameters that allow the Motif ES to manipulate the data (these additional parameters turn your audio into a musical entity). Theses parameters include a name, a play direction (one shot, reverse, loop), a Note (Key) assignment, a Velocity assignment, you can tune it up or down by assigning a range of keys such that each successive key is 1/12 of an octave higher or lower depending on the direction you move, Etc., etc.

A wave (.wav) is just the audio you recorded or imported. It does not have any Motif ES parameters yet. It typically can only play in one direct (forward), at one pitch (the original recorded pitch). It does not follow Equal Temperament, and only plays at the set volume.

A wav is not a musical entity.
A Waveform is. You can strike a key harder to make a Waveform sound louder.

Even a computer can playback a wav. You can hit the spacebar or click on it and it plays. This is not musical. Certainly not as musical as determining how loud it plays by pressing a key. That is a musical gesture; the volume change 1-127 in response to a pressed key, is musical!

 
Posted : 23/12/2015 1:28 am
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