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Using Motif XS Editor VST with Cubase 7 via USB

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 B
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Hello,

I am very very pleased this afternoon to have, it seems, successfully set up the Motif XS Editor VST to work with Cubase 7.5 via USB.

I had previously fiddled with it via Firewire, but a number of factors lead me to abandon this approach. (Not the least of which is that I have a USB audio interface as the central piece of my studio, and did not feel like having to switch between the two all the time, and I finally traced dropouts to my Firewire card which, according to reading, is not one that the Yamaha mLAN likes to work with)

So, I uninstalled the YSFW driver, the Motif XS Extension, and the Motif XS Editor. Then I installed the USB-MIDI Driver v3.1.3, and reinstalled the XS Editor v1.6.4, carefully following the install instructions.

I have the Motif connected to the PC via USB, and connected to my audio interface by analog audio via the Main L/R outputs of the XS and into the main analog inputs of the interface.

Now, when I load "Motif XS Editor" into the Cubase VST Instrument Rack, the XS editor automatically opens and connects and syncs. Lovely. I went into "VSTi Setup" and configured only channel 1 to use Analog 1 and Analog 2 as L and R.

I started a new empty project, loaded the XS Editor into the VST Instrument Rack, and clicked "create" when it asked it I wanted to create a MIDI track to go with the instrument. Then I chose an uncommon voice in the XS Editor, (the Motif is in Voice mode at this point), recorded a brief part, saved the Cubase project, and closed the project.

Upon re-opening the project I was ecstatic to see the XS Editor automatically open, sync to the Motif, and set the voice I had chosen. Excellent so far.

So, now.......

What is my next step to be able to use the Motif for multiple tracks? I don't mean simultaneously. All I want to be able to do is, using my single-track project as an example, is to now "freeze" the first track, creating an audio track of it, then move on to creating the next MIDI track with another voice, then freeze it, and so on.

It seems I could do this by creating my next MIDI track, set my new voice via the XS Editor, record the MIDI, then route that MIDI to the Motif VST and bounce the audio return from the Motif to a new audio track. But it seems that doing it that way will not record any of the voice parameters of the tracks when I save the project - I'll lose all recall. (Or will I?) Or of I load a new instance of the Motif VST into the rack for each track, will that do it? Or will that just create mayhem as each instance tries to sync the Motif?

In short - how can I do this?

Thank you.

 
Posted : 20/07/2015 1:15 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

What is my next step to be able to use the Motif for multiple tracks? I don't mean simultaneously. All I want to be able to do is, using my single-track project as an example, is to now "freeze" the first track, creating an audio track of it, then move on to creating the next MIDI track with another voice, then freeze it, and so on.

Yes you could Freeze your individual Track and open another instance of the Motof XS VST. This is not the most efficient way to work but you could ... We'll outline the workflow below.

It seems I could do this by creating my next MIDI track, set my new voice via the XS Editor, record the MIDI, then route that MIDI to the Motif VST and bounce the audio return from the Motif to a new audio track.

Yes, exactly. Since you only have one Motif XS, if you are working in the VOICE mode, you would have to "bounce" each individual musical part you record to a proper Audio Track or as previously mentioned create a temporary FREEZE (audio rendering) of the data. FREEZE, keeps the MIDI data in a locked/muted state, so that your performance is played back from this temporary audio rendering. This allows you to give the hardware XS another task. Later one-by-one you would unFreeze the data and render a proper Audio Track before mixing down.

In short - how can I do this?

I would be remiss if I did not point out to you that the Editor has two multi-timbral modes: SONG and PATTERN. These allow you to build as many as 16 Parts before you have to Freeze your data to render temporary audio files. By placing your Motif XS in SONG or PATTERN mode, you can record 16 Tracks before you FREEZE the MIDI data and render those temporary Audio files. Then, if you require more than 16 Parts you can open a second instance of the Motif XS Editor... And gain the use of 16 more Parts. (The second instance of the XS will be referred to as "02-Motif XS VST").

Learning to use your Motif XS in SONG MIXING or PATTERN MIXING modes will greatly simplify your task. And your ultimate work load. Yes, you could, track by-track, record MIDI data in VOICE mode, FREEZING each separately... But why? Place your XS in Song mode, select multiple Parts - record your MIDI for them, then FREEZE them later you can deal with the rendering of them to audio as you may desire/require.

What FREEZE does is take your MIDI performance and runs it through once printing a "temporary" audio file that it keeps in the Audio Pool (in a special Freeze folder) it uses this audio file for playback temporarily taking the MIDI TRACK offline, this releases the Motif XS from having to continue to generate data in real time in response to the MIDI Track data. The Freeze audio plays back instead of the MIDI data triggering the XS. This frees (no pun intended) the hardware to do something else.

The data that is held in the FREEZE folder can later be unFrozen... Which means the MIDI tracks are reactivated and again will trigger the hardware. As you know if you do it track at a time you are simply making it more difficult for yourself. Reason: in VOICE mode your XS can only play one VOICE at a time. The advantage of working in Song or Pattern mode, is you can work in context with several musical Parts at a time... Which is helpful when building a song with multiple musical parts. In fact there is no downside to working in groups of eight XS Parts at a time... Each can still take advantage of their Dual Insertion Effects, plus you can workout instrument grouping that make sense...

For example...
Rhythm Section: keyboard, bass, drums, guitars, etc
Sweetening: strings, brass, pads, sound fx, etc
Melody/Counter-melody: leads, support sounds

This way in smaller groups you are able to listen in context to parts. Your task of rendering (bouncing) individual components to proper audio tracks will be limited by the number of audio connections you have simultaneously. This is when the FW really shines, because of the seer number of simultaneous buses you had available. You will be bouncing either one or two parts at a time depending on if you have connected both the Main L/R outputs and the Assignable L/R outputs. You can render the entire project as a stereo mix, or you can divide them any way you desire.

 
Posted : 20/07/2015 11:59 am
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OK, this is getting very exciting. Thanks for the feedback.

In my single track project, I put the XS Editor into Song Mode, and the 16-Part window comes up. The "Recv Channel" for each Part comes up already set to the Part Number (ie, Pat 2 has Recv Channel set to 2)

I created a few more MIDI tracks in Cubase, and ensured that the Output Routing for each is "Motif XS VST - MIDI IN", then ensured that the Output Channel for each track addressed a different Part Recv Channel (ie, MIDI track 3 in Cubase has its output Channel set to 3, which directs the MIDI output from this track to Part 3 on the Motif)

I recorded something in each MIDI track, hit playback, and, glory be, the Motif returned all the parts in the correct voices. In other words, I have moved the sequencer function out of the Motif and into Cubase, and moved the Motif editing function from the push-buttons on the Motif to the XS Editor VST. One of the advantages of this, it seems t me, is that all of the sound generation is still being done on the Motif. All that processing remains off the computer. And since the Motif is custom-designed to do that processing, I'm betting it's going to be cleaner and more reliable. Not to mention I love the sounds available on the Motif.

Then - big test - I hit "Freeze" on the Motif VSTin the instrument rack. t renders in real time because it's an external module, but, yes, it rendered an audio file for playback from within Cubase, so the Motif is no longer solicited. Nice.

OK, so now that I've created and frozen my first logical group of tracks, time to load a second instance of the Motif VST in the rack. This leads to a small issue:

I click on the rack, select "External - MOTIF XS VST" just like before, say yes to creating a MIDI track - the XS Editor window opens......and fashes in red "Port Open Error", and it's "Offline".

I go to File > Setup, and see that while USB is correctly selected as the Data Port, none of the three MIDI In or MIDI Out ports have been assigned. So I set them the way the first instance was set:
Port 1 - MIDI Out to MOTIF XS8-1
Port 4 - both MIDI In and MIDI Out set to MOTIF XS8-4

Setup lets me click "OK"

So I click the "Offline" button to connect, which opens the AutoSync window, and it offers me the "Start" button, which I click = but immediately get the message "Port Open Error"

No problem - I go to File > VSTi Setup, and see that none of the Audio Return Ports are set. They all say "Unassigned". But - when I select port L1, the choices list opens, but there is no Analog 1 or 2. The list starts at Analog 3(1). IF I set L1 = Analog 3 and R1 = Analog 4, I still get "Port Open Error" hen I try to connect. Same thing if I set L2 and R2 to those.

Of course, I only have audio cables connecting the Motif to my audio interface from Main L&R.

Now, in the first instance of the Motf XS VST, I had set L1 to Analog 1 and R1 to Analog 2.

So, now what?

And thanks again.

 
Posted : 20/07/2015 6:17 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Your understanding of exactly where to go when you run into an obstacle is spot on. And you should be able to select the outputs... I had to go back and re-read our thread, and I see you are using Cubase 7.5. I've been using Cubase Pro 8 for a while now. Since there was a major fix in Cubase Pro 8, I'm sure it has trickled back to 7.5 by now.

So I have to assume what you are experiencing is a version thing.

Make sure you are running the very latest version of Cubase 7.5.40 if you are not you may not be able to select the audio channels for 02-Motif XS, as you correctly surmised ANALOG 1/2 (as you did with 01-Motif XS).

I go to File > VSTi Setup, and see that none of the Audio Return Ports are set. They all say "Unassigned". But - when I select port L1, the choices list opens, but there is no Analog 1 or 2. The list starts at Analog 3(1). IF I set L1 = Analog 3 and R1 = Analog 4, I still get "Port Open Error" hen I try to connect. Same thing if I set L2 and R2 to those.

You need to select the exact channels that the XS is delivering audio (for obvious reasons, you are telling Cubase where to find the audio Return from the XS) no others will do. If they are not available, this is wrong... Selecting any others for the return simply will not do.

Sorry for the delay in getting to this question... But wanted to verify my guess that it's a version thing:
I checked both an older version of 7.5 and the latest, 7.5.40 and I was not able to make the necessary assignment in the older version, but was completely successful in the new version. I was using a similar external USB audio interface. There have been several tweaks to the VST3 functions in recent Cubase updates. Let us know.

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 8:13 am
 B
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I appreciate you looking into this so thoroughly.

As advised, I went and got the Cubase 7.5.40 update and ran it. Double checked - yes, Cubase is now 7.5.40. It lost the ASIO Driver setting - defaulted back to "Generic Low Latency ASIO Driver", and the XS EDitor VST lost all the MIDI and VSTi settings. But after re-setting the ASIO driver, re-starting Cubase, and re-setting the XS Editor settings, everything works as before with my test project.

So - the big test - I freeze the first instance of MOTIF XS VST in the instrument rack - works fine. Then I load a new instance. Create MIDI track, yes, XS Editor opens up - and says "Port Open Error"

No problem - I go into VSTi Setup, everything says "unassigned", I click the L1 and R1 drop-downs..........but I'm afraid I still have no Analog 1 or 2 options in the list. Same as before - the list starts at Analog 3.

Last ditch effort - shut everything down and re-start the computer, launch Cubase, open a brand new empty project, load MOTIF XS VST into the instrument rack, create MIDI track, yes, XS Editor opens and auto-syncs, Motif LCD screen also says it's syncing, successfully syncs to "Online", check File > SetUp and File > VSTi Setup, and both have everything set properly. So, record a couple of MIDI tracks with different voices on the same VST instance, and freeze it. OK so far. Then, load another instance into the rack, create MIDI track, yes......nope....XS EDitor opens with "Port Open Error" and in the top left of teh editor window it says "No Audio". In File > Setup, the MIDI ports have been lost and have to be reset; and in VSTi Setup, L1 and R1 are unassigned and Analaog ! & are not available in the drop down list.

For reference, my setup is:

Windows 7 SP1
Cubase 7.5.40
RME Fireface UFX with firmware and driver updated just a few days ago
Motif XS has V1.6 Os update
Motif USB-MIDI driver is v3.1.3, and the XS Editor is v1.6.4

So I think everything is as up-to-date as it can be.

Any further guidance will be greatly appreciated - but I know how difficult it becomes when it works just fine there but not here.

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 6:20 pm
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As a possible workaround - in VSTi setup, I see all the other inputs of my UFX listed, including the AES inputs ! & 2, and ADAT 1 to 16. There's a "Digital Out" coax on the back of the Motif. Reading says it's SPDIF. Does this carry the full 16-channel digital audio that the Firewire does? If so, maybe I can get it to talk to the AES or ADAT inputs.......

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 6:58 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Any further guidance will be greatly appreciated - but I know how difficult it becomes when it works just fine there but not here.

Yes. There are many contributing factors. Old preferences may cause the old behavior. Also you are working on a Windows OS, so it's difficult for me to run the same exact system you are to test.

As a possible workaround - in VSTi setup, I see all the other inputs of my UFX listed, including the AES inputs ! & 2, and ADAT 1 to 16. There's a "Digital Out" coax on the back of the Motif. Reading says it's SPDIF. Does this carry the full 16-channel digital audio that the Firewire does? If so, maybe I can get it to talk to the AES or ADAT inputs.......

No. The option you select must be where the audio is actually set to return (where the XS is actually plugged in). You are experiencing an error. Multiple devices should be able to be routed simultaneously to that return. By it not appearing is an error - we need to find the cause of that error on your system. I am not aware of any known issue with any particular computer system. My initial tests with the multiple instances of the VST running were with FW, so I had to test whether everything would work when using an external audio interface and USB instead. And it works just fine.

There have been several changes to how the VST setup functions. Changes that affect both VST INSTRUMENTS setups: TRACK INSTRUMENTS and RACK INSTRUMENTS

The only method to get 16 bus outputs from a Motif XS is via FW using an FW16E or (updated mLAN16E2). No other analog or digital system works for the 16 channels.

What to try:
Try setting up and recording on instance 1 of the Motif XS VST.
When you've completed recording...
FREEZE the data.
UnMute the Motif XS VST Audio Lane, so that you can monitor playback of your "freeze" audio. Verify that you can monitor the audio (the MIDI data on the tracks will have padlock icons denoting the "freeze" is in place; your hardware is released.
Save a Cubase CPR File in this condition.
Close CUBASE.

Re-launch Cubase and open the file.
Start by setting up the second instance of the Motif XS VST
Set the SETUP and the VSTi SETUP within the Editor
See if this time your audio interface's ports are available, let us know. By saving the setup and then reopening I'm trying to get your updated system to recognize the assignment of the XS VST to the RME driver's Analog 1/2.

There are other possible workarounds, but I'll need to verify them before I send you down any other rabbit hole. Any way let us know if you have success with Saving then opening the file.

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 8:12 pm
 B
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Such stick-to-it-iveness!

OK - test completed.

starting from everything turned off

turn on Fireface UFX
turn on Motif & wait for startup to complete
turn on computer
launch Cubase
open new, empty project
load Motif XS VST into instrument rack
say 'yes' to create MIDI track
XS Editor opens & syncs automatically, goes "Online" successfully
check: File > Setup correctly has Port 1 MIDI Out = MOTIF XS8-1, and both In and Out for Port 4 = MOTIF XS8-4
check File > VSTi Setup correctly has L1 = Analog 1 and R1= Analog 2
Record a few bars into MIDI track; I have TotalMix setup so I hear the Software Playback AN1/2
Add a second MIDI track routed to Part 2 of the XS Editor & record to the same few bars
On the instrument rack, I click the Freeze icon. Completes real-time freeze. Freeze sub-folder of project now contains "MOTIF XS VST - MOTI XS1.wav"
Check playback - I hear the freeze file played back, no signal is coming from the Motif, MIDI tracks have lock icons
Save project, close project, close Cubase

Launch Cubase, open project - project opens an XS Editor does not laucnh
load a second instance of MOTIF XS VST into instrument rack
yes, create MIDI file
XS Editor opens and says "Port open error", is "Offline", and blue header bar says "No Audio"
go to File > Setup: MIDI ports are not set but I am able to set them identically to the first instance
go to File > VSTi Setup : Audio Return Ports are not assigned, and Analog 1 & 2 are absent from the drop down selections

Hope that helps.

Out of curiosity - what DOES come out of the Digital Out coax?

And thanks again for the help.

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 9:30 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Check playback - I hear the freeze file played back, no signal is coming from the Motif, MIDI tracks have lock icons
Save project, close project, close Cubase

Launch Cubase, open project - project opens an XS Editor does not laucnh

And why not, if you Saved the Project with the Editor Open then when you open the Project the Editor should Open automatically. If yours is not, then we need to verify some basic settings with your Cubase. Are you certain you SAVED with the Editor VST open, yet when you re-open this Project the Editor VST does not open at all? How about playing back the FILE, does the FREEZE audio play... does it not come back exactly as you expect.

Please before we move on, is that what is happening?
If that is the case then we have some settings to check, that is not right either.

 
Posted : 21/07/2015 9:56 pm
 B
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Bad Mister wrote:
And why not, if you Saved the Project with the Editor Open then when you open the Project the Editor should Open automatically. If yours is not, then we need to verify some basic settings with your Cubase. Are you certain you SAVED with the Editor VST open, yet when you re-open this Project the Editor VST does not open at all? How about playing back the FILE, does the FREEZE audio play... does it not come back exactly as you expect.
.

At the step:

"On the instrument rack, I click the Freeze icon. Completes real-time freeze. Freeze sub-folder of project now contains "MOTIF XS VST - MOTI XS1.wav""

one detail I did not report is that upon completion of the Freeze processing, the XS Editor closes automatically. So, no, it is not open when, two steps later, I close the project. And I cannot re-open it to have it open when I save with the instrument frozen. The "Edit Instrument" icons both on the instrument rack and in the track inspector's output field are greyed out, inaccessible. Which I thought made sense since this instrument is now frozen. I can only re-open the XS Editor by un-freezing the instrument.

If, at that same step, (so still just the single instance in the rack), I un-freeze the instrument, re-open the XS Editor, THEN close the project and then re-open it, (so I only closed the project, didn't quit Cubase entirely or turn anything off), the XS Editor automatically re-opens and sync successfully, with the MIDI ports and VSTi Audio Ports intact.

As a test, I tried (with just one instance in the rack) - freeze the instrument, (so, XS Editor has closes itself), save the project, close the project, quit Cubase, re-start Cubase, re-open the project - the project opens with the instrument frozen and no XS Editor, as it was saved. When I add a second instance of the XS Editor to the rack, I get the same error - Port Open Error. MIDI ports are not assigned in Setup, and Audio Return Ports are not assigned in VSTi Setup.

I also tried NOT freezing the first instance - just closing the Editor, then adding a second instance to the rack. A new Editor window opens, but with the same port error, and no MIDI or Audio Return ports assigned.

So here's perhaps an interesting tidbit that I hadn't really paid attention to before, because it's been like this since forever -

When I open Cubase for the first time, and when I open a new project for the first time, they just open with no messages. But if I create a project, create a track in it, save it, close it, and re-open it, I get a message dialog box entitled "Missing Ports". It shows Missing Ports = "MOTIF XS8 Remote" with a "+" which opens to show "Yamaha Motif XS". It says this port is an "Out" and is "unmapped".

In case this has anything to do with loading the Motif VST instrument, I tried creating a new project and loading only one instrument track, selecting Halion Sonic as the instrument. So I haven't touched anything "Motif" in this project. Save, close, re-open - I get the same "Missing Ports" message about the MOTI XS8 Remote being unmapped.

Hope this is more clear and gives a few clues.

Thanks.

 
Posted : 22/07/2015 3:47 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

When I open Cubase for the first time, and when I open a new project for the first time, they just open with no messages. But if I create a project, create a track in it, save it, close it, and re-open it, I get a message dialog box entitled "Missing Ports". It shows Missing Ports = "MOTIF XS8 Remote" with a "+" which opens to show "Yamaha Motif XS". It says this port is an "Out" and is "unmapped".

Hmmm. You have taught your Cubase to expect to route signal to a MIDI Device that is no longer connected. Useful information but you probably don't want to reconnect whatever you were doing with the Motif XS8 Remote... what were you doing with the FW REMOTE that is being remembered by your system?
Let's check your DEVICE SETUP

Three questions:

1) Go to DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > MIDI PORT SETUP > what items are marked in your "IN ALL MIDI INPUT" column?
2) In the next Folder REMOTE DEVICES > what item is setup to be the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT in the REMOTE Folder?
3) And while we are here > what item is set as the VST AUDIO SYSTEM's ASIO Driver?

 
Posted : 22/07/2015 12:39 pm
 B
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Maybe easier if I use the thousand words method

1) DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > MIDI PORT SETUP - see "midi_ports.jpg"

2) REMOTE DEVICES - see "remote_devices.jpg", "track.jpg" and "vst,jpg"

3) VST AUDIO SYSTEM's ASIO Driver - see "vst_audio.jpg"

And thanks for your perseverance.

Attached files

 
Posted : 22/07/2015 3:00 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Okay more than I asked for, but let's make some corrections; starting with the items you have inputting data to your MIDI tracks.

In screenshot 1 your MIDI Ports are all marked, when only those acting as Midi input controller devices should be marked.
We don't know what you have connected to the two MIDI ports on the "UFX" device but what you want to determine is are they devices you wish to record to your Cubase MIDI TRACKs?

Certainly the Motif XS's MIDI Port 1 should be marked
Possibly, if you have something connected to the 5-pin jack on the back of the XS you could activate Port 3
But please unmark Motif XS port 2 and port 4, they are sending data that you definitely do not want to be recorded to your Midi tracks.

The "In 'All Midi Inputs'", column is for devices that are actually controllers you wish to use as triggering devices. You have them all active, this can lead to MIDI issues, front panel buttons playing notes and other wackiness.

You don't have the XS setup as a Remote control device, which is fine. If you want to add the Motif XS as a Control Surface for Cubase you would ADD (+) it and route only Yamaha Motif XS8-2" (port 2) for MIDI INPUT/OUTPUT in the REMOTE DEVICES Folder.

You are using the Fireface USB Driver as your ASIO DRIVER.
(Not sure why you provided the other pictures but you are routing every Midi connection you have there) ???

Let's see if we can find out why your Cubase is looking for an old FW setting you must have made previously , but are no longer using...

Usually, if Cubase is missing a port it has been assigned as a device and is no longer found when you open a project. So apparently at some point you must have setup or attempted to setup using FW. You must have saved this setting and it is now apart of your preferences. The "Motif XS REMOTE" refers to the DAW Remote control port specifically via FW. That setting remains active and is not found.

When that message appears you have an option to redirect it, if you don't I imagine it continues to haunt you every time, until you decide to deal with it and redirect it appropriately to where it should look for that port. Try setting up the XS as a Remote Control Device and redirect that dialog box to the XS's USB port 2, I believe it gives you an option to update that permanently. (Let us know).

Go to DEVICES > MIDI DEVICE MANAGER > here is where you can install script files (.XML) to select preset voices from a patch list. If your Motif XS or other device is installed here, this may be causing the missing port... It is unknown. Do you have any installed devices here? This is another location were "missing" port assignments can occur. If you, for example, set installed a device list and associated with a MIDI Port and then that MIDI port no longer appears, you'll get an error message/warning about a missing port.

Unfortunately, this is all Midi related and has nothing whatever to do with your audio assignment not being available, but it is curious that it is still referencing some previous setup you (apparently) at one time experimented with, and is being referenced like it's your preferred setup. We just need to update your Cubase preferences to what you want to setup now. So I'm going to assume it is some how related (at least until I can verify it on a Windows7 setup...I have to find some one still using Window 7 to run my tests. I know better than to assume just because it works on one it automatically works on the other. While that is most often true, it is not always. And since function was apparently fixed, I'm still going under the assumption, we just have to get your Cubase version to refresh and use the new feature.

Let us know, we'll continue to look at it from this side. (I'd be curious if it connects via FW) is that mot an option with your computer?

 
Posted : 22/07/2015 5:38 pm
 B
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We don't know what you have connected to the two MIDI ports on the "UFX" .....

There is nothing connected to the MIDI connectors of the UFX. In fact there are no other devices on my rig. Just the Motif, the UFX, and the PC. (Ok, and monitors) The Motif was once connected to the UFX via MIDI cables, but I completely removed them when I switched to USB. Un-clicking them in the "In All MIDI" column changed their Status to "Inactive".

Certainly the Motif XS's MIDI Port 1 should be marked

OK, left it checked.

Possibly, if you have something connected to the 5-pin jack on the back of the XS you could activate Port 3

Nothing connected there, so I unchecked it.& Status switched to "Inactive".

But please unmark Motif XS port 2...

OK, done.

...and port 4, they are sending data that you definitely do not want to be recorded to your Midi tracks.

OK, I unchecked it. But I'm a bit confused why. When I open the XS Editor and go to File > Setup, with USB selected for MIDI, it says that it's using MOTIF XS8-1 for MIDI Out on Port 1, but nothing for MIDI In, and using MOTIF XS8-4 for both In and Out on Port 4. If I disable MOTIF XS8-4, how will MIDI go "In"? I note that with MOTI XS8-4 disabled, I am, in fact, able to both record (MIDI Out) AND playback (MIDI IN) - but it's not at all clear how.

OK - worse . In doing this last step, I just noticed this:
- turn on Motif, UFX, computer
- launch Cubase
- immediately check Device Setup > MIDI Port Setup
- it shows "Yamaha MOTIF XS8-1, 2, 3, 4" (See attached image midi_ports_2.jpg)
- open a test project that has a single MOTIF XS VST instance in the rack and that auto-syncs successfully
- go back to Device Setup
- now there's only MOTIF XS8-1,2,3. The "4" is gone from the list. ( attached image midi_ports_3.jpg)

I did some experiments.

If I close Cubase and re-open it (without turning off anything else), MOTIF XS8-4 re-appears.

If I then open any project that does NOT have an instance of MOTIF XS VST in the instrument rack, and check Device Setup, then MOTIF XS8-4 remains in the list.

If I open any project that DOES have an instance of MOTIF XS VST in the instrument rack, whether it's frozen or not, and whether the XS Editor opens or not, and check Device Setup, then MOTIF XS8-4 disappears from the list. BUT, the XS Editor syncs just fine and when I check under File > Setup, it says it's using MOTIF XS8-4 for Port 4 MIDI In and Out. (attached image xs_editor_midi_ports.jpg)

Now, maybe this is nothing - but thought I better report it 'cause it sure looks suspicious.

The "In 'All Midi Inputs'", column is for devices that are actually controllers you wish to use as triggering devices. You have them all active, this can lead to MIDI issues, front panel buttons playing notes and other wackiness.

I have experienced that whackiness when I was using the MIDI cables thru the UFX. Sometimes a certain note played on the Motif would cause the UFX to do something crazy like jump into overload mode and cut gain by 1/2.

You are using the Fireface USB Driver as your ASIO DRIVER.

Yes - using my audio interface's ASIO driver - as it should be, no? (My only other option in the dropdown list is the Generic driver)

(Not sure why you provided the other pictures but you are routing every Midi connection you have there) ???

Put them in just in case there was something about these remote devices that mattered. The MIDI Input option selected is what was selected by default - and since, at this point in my education I don't even know what these are, I just left it there.

Let's see if we can find out why your Cubase is looking for an old FW setting you must have made previously , but are no longer using.........When that message appears you have an option to redirect it...

Nope. Just "OK" and "Cancel", which do the same thing - close the dialog box.

...if you don't I imagine it continues to haunt you every time...

Yep, but it never made any difference to anything I could see, so I figured I'd live with it and figure it out some day.......

Go to DEVICES > MIDI DEVICE MANAGER > here is where you can install script files (.XML) to select preset voices from a patch list. If your Motif XS or other device is installed here, this may be causing the missing port... It is unknown. Do you have any installed devices here? This is another location were "missing" port assignments can occur. If you, for example, set installed a device list and associated with a MIDI Port and then that MIDI port no longer appears, you'll get an error message/warning about a missing port.

We have a winner! I went into that dialog and found "Yamaha MOTIF XS" as the lone entry in the "Installed Devices" list. Selected it and clicked "Remove Device". Close dialog, close project, re-open another project - NO "Missing Prts" dialog! Tried opening a few more projects - we are "Missing Ports Dialog" free, my friend. Thank you.

Unfortunately, this is all Midi related and has nothing whatever to do with your audio assignment not being available,

All too true. Trying to add a second instance of MOTIF XS VST to the instrument rack continues to produce the dreaded "Port Open Error". Plus the issue about disappearing ports described above remains.

I'd be curious if it connects via FW) is that mot an option with your computer?

I uninstalled the YSFW driver when I installed the USB driver, and, if we could put off switching to Firewire for a bit, I'm loathe to start messing about with Firewire settings while we're sorting out USB for fear of losing any of the progress made so far.

But thank you again for your diligence.

Attached files

 
Posted : 23/07/2015 12:20 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I completely understand (I was just curious), we need to have it working as you desire.

Your MIDI Ports are now correctly setup. Again, the DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > MIDI > MIDI PORT SETUP > "In 'All MIDI Inputs'", is for devices you are going to use as your primary and secondary controllers. Devices you will use to input data to MIDI Tracks. Via USB your Motif XS has four Ports, each with a specific use.

Port 1 -sends/receives MIDI key-on, controller and tempo messages to and from the computer for the XS
Port 2 -used for the DAW REMOTE function (not a device used for inputting data to a MIDI track)
Port 3 -used to connect an external device to the computer when the XS is using USB port 1; port 3 being available for 1 external device. This can be your secondary controller (input device to create Midi event data)
Port 4 -used exclusively for the bi-directional communication of the Editor VST, used to keep the Editor's GUI and your XS hardware synchronized - move a knob on the screen the hardware responds and vice versa. Again, unless you are developing skills to perform on the little Editor's keyboard with your mouse, the Editor movements should be kept discreet on Port 4. It is quite alright that it disappears from the "In 'All Midi Inputs'" list... It is not a legitimate input device for the MIDI Track. Port 4 is also used for independent READ/WRITE functions for Automation - rather than recording controller data to the track (which is fine for controllers you use during performing) Cubase gives you a separate way to create Automation data (controller data applied for mixing purposes, fades, pan movements, effect send amounts, etc.,) You can simply "WRITE" automation separately via Port 4 to the VST "Automation Lane" (this has distinct advantages when editing or applying a particular gesture to other Parts). Its role is clear: controlling the graphic Editor and the separate R/W Automation functions. And like selecting DAW REMOTE (port 2), the selection of Port 4 is handled elsewhere, (within the Editor VSTi SETUP)... NOT where you select which devices have access to your MIDI TRACKS!

Understanding what the column "In 'All Midi Inputs'", is for makes this clear- only controller devices: your keyboards, a guitar MIDI controller, an electronic drum kit controller, something that generates legitimate MIDI NOTE-ON and cc messages! Messages you wish to record/document to a MIDI TRACK.

Take a look at the TRACK INSPECTOR > specifically the MIDI INPUT line, the default for a new MIDI Track is "ALL MIDI INPUTS" - these are the devices you've marked in the "In 'All Midi Inputs'" column... Your other selectable options are manually selecting a single specific device. This 'All Midi Inputs' option allows you to setup multiple devices as controllers when creating tracks... You may have an 88 key weighted action keyboard for doing piano tracks, and you may prefer a synth action 61 keyboard for laying down organ and drums, etc., etc. by marking just the MIDI IN ports of your controller keyboards in this column, you can play on any set of keys, even both simultaneously!

The "missing port" error message mystery had to be one of two things setup previously by you, that was no longer being used. That is why it was not found. You'll find that when an error message appears it is not a bug... It has an appropriate message that it displays. It's a bug when you cannot select the USB port because the option does not appear at all and no error message appears to tell you why (that's where we're at, or you're at... I've been successful in selecting the external USB audio device's ports...

I will further inquire.

Two quick question: in 7.5 when you opt to FREEZE the first instance of the Motif XS VST what options are you offered at that time and what did you select to do?
When I asked you to SAVE the first instance of the XS VST, when you reopened the file, (before attempting to setup the second instance) does the Freeze Audio playback as you expected?

Thanks.

 
Posted : 23/07/2015 1:07 pm
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