If you add VCM Mini Booster after the Pitch Change effect - you can recover the volume lost using Pitch Change.

Pitch Change(InsA)-->VCM Mini Booster(InsB)-->Part output

Thanks!

I tried boosting prior to the pitch change effect - it's easy to switch using InsB->InsA routing instead of InsA->InsB. The result was that the Pitch Change effect now at the end of the chain diminished the volume and "sizzle" of the boosted signal. Ultimately, despite some thought that this (placing boost prior to pitch change) would be a way to go, I recommended boosting at the end of the signal chain.

Although I don't have the OP's details on what exactly they have setup - I did hear what was complained about by doing the following:

1) Recalling the "Init Normal (AWM2)" preset. This is a single-Part (Part 1)
2) Turned off Reverb Send (default 15ish - rolled it down to 0) for Part 1 -- Aside: why the default patch doesn't have velocity sensitivity (particularly for the chosen piano waveform) but does have reverb is one of those mysteries.
3) Replaced the piano element (Part 1 element 1, the only active one) with the waveform supplied by the OP (Fat Saw St)
4) Edited Part 1's InsA effect to change from Thru (no effect) to the Pitch Change effect. Played with pitch #1, #2 fine detuning and wet/dry. Was able to hear the unwanted behavior mentioned by toggling on/off the effect (InsA altogether).

... then I did this to look into addressing the stated issue:
5) Added VCM Mini Booster effect to InsA which seemed to address the stated issues.
6) Tried routing InsB(VMC Mini Booster)->InsA(Pitch Change) and wasn't happy with that -- put the sound close to square one.

...

I just need to compare OB Saw waveform as source and Fat Saw St as source.
I start Init Normal (AWM2) and detune OB Saw. The result is good for me.
Then I replace OB Saw with Fat Saw St but detune is not clean.
Change Pitch (A/ or B) makes different work with Fat Saw St.
At first it surprised me, although I understood the reason is that Fat Saw
is detuned wave. It's like to clean reverb from recorded audio.

I just made blanks of simple leads. Nothing special. I'm just practicing.

Aside: why the default patch doesn't have velocity sensitivity (particularly for the chosen piano waveform) but does have reverb is one of those mysteries.

Yes! +1

🙂

Probably should add that if you want to have more fun, use a Mono Sample (Fat Saw Mn) in two different elements, one panned left, the other right, you get back the stereo field, all the benefits of operating filters on unique sides of a stereo image (each Element having its own filter) and can slightly detune both the filters of each Element and the Samples of each, too, such that there's a wonderful, very mild wavering going on.

And then you can add a stereo Delay, which is the mother of all effects for saw sounds, and "bounce" the "reflections" from left to right.

Ideal is a 1/4th and 1/8th dotted, L to R, with a medium sized feedback (about 30 to 40) and 0 wetness/dryness so the initial sound still has a strong influence.

Now put on your favourite basic arpeggio and you'll be off to the trance races.

To make this even better, copy and paste the first two elements out to the next two elements, and add more detune to each (up one, down on the other) and more changes to the Filter cutoff and resonance (up the other one, down the other one) and then slightly change the amount of velocity to cutoff responsiveness on this new pair, and set them to slightly lesser strengths of panning (3/4 pan to left/right, not all the way), and then repeat for Elements 5 and 6, and then for 7 and 8, and make a Super Fat Saw!

Regarding boosting before or after... use the Element EQ... pop the Sample up, 6, 12 or even 18db gains. This works absolute wonders on Saw samples, and can add a little pre effect overdrive distortion, which is even more organically wonderful as this doesn't tend to move as much to the detune effect, kind of being a more stable "noise" within the signal of the pushed sample.

And this pre-Filter EQ boost is fantastic for milking the filter! Can really make it sing, and enable subtle use of the otherwise horrific resonance on the MODX/Montage filters. The only way to use their resonance, I say.

And then add the best of the new effects - the Wave Folder, to the Performance level Variation Effect slot, and send ALL of its output to the Reverb. You'll have to turn down the settings of the Wave Folder, as all its preset defaults are too strong.

In the slot freed up by not boosting in the Part Effects, add a very mild stereo chorus with very slow oscillation (0.04 or 0.08), as this grabs the detune and smears it really nicely. And if you still need some boost, you can add it here, too.

Now you can fiddle with the amount of the Variation effect and Reverb, to create epically analogue sounding hallmarks of the 90's and 80's synths that everyone pays a fortune for on Reverb.com

Very very best! Thanks! 🙂

What mean Mn- Mn+ and Sw? In wavform names.
How to use "of" samples? It need legato or not?

Let's continue.
I usually do assign knob1 Dry to W
I would like to assign detune down 0 > minus 20 to knob1
and to assign detune up 0 > plus 20 to knob2..
How to link knobs together? It's need Superknob?
Still I not use Superknob.
Is it possible assign two knobs to third knob3 ? 🙂

I not sure SuperKnob used per part or only performance?

Part-level Assignable knobs cannot be linked to each other. Not in the sense that turning one knob would "turn" the other.

Common-level Assignable knobs cannot be linked to each other. Same clarification as above.

My understanding is you want two knobs for one parameter. And one knob will only subtract from 0 (meaning detune down) and the other knob will only add to 0 (meaning detune up).

If that's right - then there really isn't a mode of knob operation that works like that. It seems overly complicated to use (to me -- maybe not you, I appreciate that). The standard way to do this would be to use a bi-polar curve which means you can have half of the knob's rotation subtract (detune down) -- knob in the middle is 0 offset (no detuning in this case) and the other half of the knob's rotation is for detuning up. A value of "64" for the knob value would represent the zero offset.

You can have two knobs affect the same destination. The resulting offset they apply add. The knobs won't be "linked". If one knob only adds and the other only subtracts then there's a chance you'll be adding and subtracting and the two will cancel or one knob will present "error" to the intended detune direction. You can make Superknob place the knobs back to zero. So the dance would be turn superknob slightly -- it snaps both knobs to "0" then turn the up or turn the down. If you want to change directions (up to down or vice versa) then you'd need to touch superknob to set both to zero then set the knob in the direction you want. That seems like a lot to do. But I outline some of what's available in "linking". Or maybe you were already going to spin the opposite knob full counter-clockwise when spinning the other clockwise so you manually "reset" the opposing knob. Still seems like a lot when a single knob will do. You can combine this with superknob controlling now just one (bipolar) knob so you can always zero out the knob easily.

This zero'ing out business I would change the range of the common knob to be only 64. So no matter where the superknob is, the common knob outputs 64. Then tie the common assignable knob to your Part Assignable knob that's got a bipolar curve for detune. When using the Part level knob you can move it away from "zero" (either side of 64) and it will stay put until you move superknob which any movement will snap the knob to 64 (the zero output of the curve).

The huge caveat with this zeroing approach is that you have to have the Part selected to use the Part level knob. That may be too much to setup for a tune (selecting a Part).

The conventional way would be to tie superknob to the Part-level Assignable knob and use Super Knob directly. No matter what part is selected (including none) Super Knob is available. With the superknob LEDs at 12 o'clock - that would be the zero offset with counter-clockwise say would be down detune and clockwise up detune.

Thank you Jason!

My understanding is you want two knobs for one parameter. And one knob will only subtract from 0 (meaning detune down) and the other knob will only add to 0 (meaning detune up).

Yes, but for two parameters. Two knobs and two parameters. But I want one (super knob like) for both.

Now I am surprised! Ins A - Pitch Changer Fine 1 or Fine 2 not responsed as Mod / Control InsA Param 2 😮
InsA Param 1
InsA Param 2
InsA Param 3
InsA Param 24
Not response..

Only InsA FbLvl1 or InsA FbLvl2 works.
Isn't it possible to assign all FX parameters?

And why not all params marked as destination? Why I see InsA Param 2 vs Fine 1?
Is it mean not available?

🙁

Yes, CONTROL ASSIGN button the same not respont a some params into FX. 😮
(so there are not so many for happiness)

Common-level Assignable knobs cannot be linked to each other. Same clarification as above.

Something is not very clear...
From CONTROL ASSIGN button I link knob#1 to InsA EqLoGn and again knob#1 to InsA EqHiGn.
No problem. Although it's not like two knobs. But I thought that's not possible either. 🙂
By the way, this is very good.

Something is not very clear...
From CONTROL ASSIGN button I link knob#1 to InsA EqLoGn and again knob#1 to InsA EqHiGn.
No problem. Although it's not like two knobs. But I thought that's not possible either. 🙂
By the way, this is very good.

Any single Assign Knob can be assigned to a maximum of sixteen Destinations.
Each Destination can be individually scaled as to the amount and direction of change when the Knob is engaged.

What this means in your particular discovery, both the “InsA EqLoGn” and “InsA EqHiGn” can be assigned and manipulated by the same Knob… at the same time. You can individually determine whether they add or subtract Gain from their target Destination. You program how much change and in which direction each will move within its own Control Assign setup. The determining factor about combining Destinations to a single Assign Knob is, do you need to change them both together. The reason for a separate Knob is you need to move them independent of each other. But it is sufficient to use the same AssignKnob to boost the low frequencies a lot, while attenuating high frequencies just a little.

Tip: For when programming…
The system will automatically seek to use an unassigned Knob, but you can manually assign control of multiple targets to a single Knob… again, as long as changing them needs to occur simultaneously.

Disclaimer: This is not a suggestion for use in your current Performance.

You can utilize two different controllers that work together using one controller to provide independence while the other either offsets two parameters at once or is only able to offset one of the two parameters.

1) Part 1 Assignable Knob 1, for example, could have Part Volume as a destination so you turn it clockwise and the volume increases (all the way counter clockwise there is no offset to the volume) and also this same assignable knob can control the filter cutoff such that moving the knob clockwise (increasing the cutoff value) makes a brighter sound and all the way counter clockwise is no cutoff offset. These need not go in the same direction (the curve chosen will dictate direction and these curves can be different).

2) [ASSIGN 1] button you can assign to the same cutoff destination as the above Assignable Knob. When not pressed (not lit) the offset can be offset by 0 by the ASSIGN button. This will allow for the Part 1 Assignable Knob 1 to simultaneously control volume and cutoff. Then when pressing the ASSIGN button (and it is illuminated - a toggle not momentary switch) then the [ASSIGN 1] curve for the cutoff destination could subtract 127 (offset = -127). While the [ASSIGN 1] button is illuminated, even if the Assignable Knob 1 is fully clockwise and it is offsetting cutoff by a maximum amount (adding 127) the [ASSIGN 1] button will subtract 127 which makes the resulting offset of 0. In other words, while [ASSIGN 1] is illuminated - the Assign knob will control only volume (and cutoff will be 0) while when the [ASSIGN 1] button is not illuminated, the Assign Knob will control both volume and cutoff simultaneously.

It's just one of many options on how to creatively use the possibilities.

Simply...

Mod / Control

Destination 1 > Fine > AssignKnob 1 > Ratio -10 // Element SW ON = 1 OFF = 2

Destination 2 > Fine > AssignKnob 1 >Ratio +10 // Element SW OFF = 1 ON = 2

but the result depends on the source...
fatty waves is not clean for detune tasks