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Audio Beat Sync issues.....Like Blake Angelos had live
I am using the AD input to drive sequences, patterns and arpeggios that I have created for live performances.
I am using the signal from a Roland Electronic kick drum as my source for tempos.
I have a sequenced song...Hella Good, that runs flawlessly and follows the drummer perfectly.
I programmed user arpeggios for the parts of Shake Your body to the Ground, by the Jacksons.
The song tempo is 120 BPM. Initially the AD input picks up the correct tempo from the drummers kick drum signal,
but then shortly into the song it speeds up to 180 BPM....kind of the reverse of what happened to Blake Angelos when
he was doing a Tech Talk Live demo of the AD Input/Audio Beat Sync when he couldn't get the drum signal from his Iphone
to trigger the AD Input at the proper tempo.
https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/events/tech-talk-live-the-montage-modx-a-d-input
This happened to Blake at 25:00 minutes into the video.
Once the tempo in the AD input changes, I can't get it to slow down and play the parts/arpeggios I've made play in time.
I can play the parts manually, but it would be helpful if I can use the arpeggios, as I have other keyboards that I want to use to embellish
the horn parts in the song.
I also want to run sequences in every song to trigger my lighting system in time with the music. I know it works as I've tested it and proved
it out. The problem remains with the AD Beat sync going off the rails and not being able to correct it quickly in a live situation.
I bought a Garfield Time Commander back in the late '80s that did a similar function to the AD Beat sync follower. It had problems maintaining
sync, but overall was almost the same technology as Yamaha's. Is there any work around to getting Audio Beat Sync to work without issues?
Most of the songs we do are 4/4 timing, so I don't get why it's wigging out and speeding up or running at half speed, rendering it unreliable for live use.
Appreciate your suggestions.
Thanks,
Ted
Posted : 25/06/2021 11:42 pm
Hi Ted,
Audio Beat Sync is certainly a cool feature, but if the A/D input doesn't have a solid signal (both audio and tempo) it can behave strangely. This can happen from the signal being lost (due to a bad cable or volume change from the incoming signal), inconsistent time, overly busy subdivisions, etc.
You say "Initially the AD input picks up the correct tempo from the drummers kick drum signal, but then shortly into the song it speeds up to 180 BPM". This can happen if the drummer's kick drum pattern changes in tempo, subdivision, etc. It has nothing to do with bad time, or anything like that; it can happen even if the drummer is playing to a click. What might change is the subdivision, so if the drummer is playing a quarter note pulse but on beat 4 of measure three an additional 8th note is played, or a ghosted 16th...That can do it: The beat sync hears it and the tempo doubles, or if it went from 120 to 180, it could have "heard" a triplet subdivision and increased by 60 bpm...60 + 60 = 120...60 + 60 + 60 = 180. Does that make sense?
I do think it is a cool feature, but I wouldn't necessarily rely on it during a mission critical gig. And yes: During my Livestream, Audio Beat Sync first cut the tempo in half, and that was with a solid kick drum beat. I had tried it several times before with absolutely no issues and (of course) it did what you saw LIVE.
I have mentioned this to our developers in Japan and there are some ideas on making this a much more reliable feature. As you pointed out, when it works correctly--and TBH I find it DOES actually work the vast majority of the time. ), it works REALLY well. But what we'd like to see is it working ALL the time, EVERY TIME.
So, here are two thoughts, one a bit of advice, another is just a thought about technology going forward:
ADVICE: The best advice I can give you with using Audio Beat Sync is to either reinforce the point that the drum groove has to be really consistent in order for it to work correctly, and be prepared when it doesn't. For mission critical work I'd reconsider relying on it works flawlessly everything.
THOUGHT ABOUT TECH IN THE FUTURE: We recently introduced Smart Morph, a cool FM creation tool that uses Machine Learning to generate it's sound. This is the first time we've seen this AI tech in any of our products. I think the solution to things like Audio Beat Sync may lie in this type of technology. Machine Learning and AI have the ability to..well, learn! I can see this technology developing in many cool and different ways. I am NOT, repeat, NOT suggesting that this is a development that you'll see regarding Audio Beat Sync, only that things like this will benefit from this technology in the future.
Hope this helps!
Posted : 28/06/2021 11:53 pm
Topic starter
Hi Blake,
I apologize for my seriously delayed response. Thank you for your kind explanation and ideas.
I finally finished our live jobs on October 2, here in Northern IL. Very busy summer between normal
job, health issues, playing outdoor gigs and the Covid D variant. I hope you are well and all is good.
Thankfully I can play most of the parts to Hella Good when the AB Sync doesn't work properly, and
hope that Yamaha devotes some time/energy to developing the technology more. Keep up the
excellent work. You have a gift when it comes to making some of the more difficult concepts that
Yamaha includes in it's products much easier to understand. Apologies for my rudeness for such a
late reply. I sat down the day after you responded and started to write....got interrupted with my job
and, finally remembered to get back to you. I appreciate all that you do.
Ted Pitzen
Posted : 06/10/2021 2:53 pm
