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Black-keys lose attack and resonance on repeated notes.

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Hello all,

I purchased a MODX8. When striking any single black key in succession, say, 16th notes @ 90 BPM (or faster), notes following the initial (first) note lose both their attack and resonance. This seems to happen on most instruments that are "percussive" e.g. acoustic piano (various performances), brass, Rhodes, etc. This ONLY occurs on the black notes. The white notes are fine. I found this thread with a similar issue on the CP73. https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp73-black-key-issue

I tried one in a store and did not encounter the issue. I am really happy with this keyboard otherwise. Please advise.

thanks,

Jonathan

 
Posted : 24/09/2020 4:22 am
Jason
Posts: 8260
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The "didn't happen at the store" part of this is interesting. You may want to reduce the number of differences. Mono vs. stereo is different between the store setup and yours? Output speakers/monitors/system different at the store?

You can't really change your room - but that's a difference (size, materials, etc).

And possibly more distractions (acoustic background noise) in the store unless it's an isolation booth.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 24/09/2020 3:55 pm
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Jason, thanks for your response. I am running mono out into a keyboard amp. I checked with headphones (stereo) and the same issue is happening. The store had two speakers set up on various sides of the stand which I assume to be stereo. If this was a stereo versus mono issue, it would be happening with both the white and black keys, not just the black ones. 🙁

 
Posted : 24/09/2020 5:20 pm
Jason
Posts: 8260
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... and if it's happening on your black keys - it "should" happen on the black keys in the store. So I'm interested in what's at play between these two setups to give the results you experience.

Not that this is necessarily it - but when I first brought home an S90XS from the store I plugged it into my system and the piano sounds were especially horrid. The store was so much different. I went back to the store to see what the demo unit was hooked up to. I think they were Yamaha HS5 monitors. I got a pair of HS5 speakers and wow - did that unstuff the sound and bring the demo floor experience to my studio.

I still didn't quite like some of the range of the "new" S-series piano. That's more part of the "experience" of that piano that I think if I spent enough time at the store - I'd duplicate. But sometimes the sound reinforcement part of the equation can really help or hurt a setup.

I'm only interested in these sort of questions because of the stated difference between the store and your studio. Because I would think black keys are black keys and the sort of discussion around the CP series should be easy to reproduce on like hardware in the store just as easily as at home.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 24/09/2020 5:57 pm
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Reminder, this is a MODX8, not a CP. Sound quality is one thing. Yes, speakers will definitely effect that kind of thing. An attack is a whole different ballgame, especially when it happens on only the notes following the first note played and only on the black keys. This is not a set-up issue. As I said, it happens with brand new Audio Technica headphones plugged directly into the keyboard. Thanks again for your responses.

 
Posted : 24/09/2020 8:45 pm
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Could you post an audio example of what you're hearing? That might help, since having piano and brass sounds losing "both their attack and resonance" seems to be a pretty vague description to me.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 3:19 pm
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Say "too", then say "oo." (The former has an attack.) The notes subsequent to the first had no hammer strike (piano) or tonguing (brass) on the front end of the note (just a quieter sound of the note after it has decayed a bit).

Tried two separate units in two different stores, none of which replicated the issue. I returned the keyboard and am looking to get a CP-88 instead.

 
Posted : 27/09/2020 8:21 am
Posts: 820
Prominent Member
 

Say "too", then say "oo." (The former has an attack.) The notes subsequent to the first had no hammer strike (piano) or tonguing (brass) on the front end of the note (just a quieter sound of the note after it has decayed a bit).

Got that for attack, not sure what you mean by resonance. Anyway, it's actually normal/desirable for brass sounds to often be programmed that way for legato playing to mimic the real thing, but you certainly wouldn't normally expect that on a piano sound! And of coure this behavior should be no different on black keys than on white ones. There are no envelope/filter/etc. parameters that only affect black keys or only white ones. So yeah, anything that happens on just black keys--and especially since you could not replicate it on another unit (pretty much eliminating user error)--sounds like a defect.

 
Posted : 27/09/2020 2:14 pm
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It's a shame he got a bad one. The MODX is truly incredible.

But I would do the same thing. If I got a synth that had physical defects I wouldn't trust that manufacturer again. It's too important when you are using it to make a living.

 
Posted : 30/09/2020 2:02 pm
Jason
Posts: 8260
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If there's an issue with the MODX, I'm guessing black keys would show a drastically different velocity than white keys if you looked at a MIDI monitor (or even Cubase included with MODX).

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 30/09/2020 4:00 pm
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