I’m not sure how you could know that you haven’t recorded more than 520,000 notes/events... in fact, I’m pretty sure you couldn’t possibly know.

A very eloquent recognition of a shortcoming.

If we get a "memory full" error with no mechanism for determining what the cause is - perhaps the system could be enhanced to supply users with the facility to know what caused cups to overflow rather than not possibly being able to know. At least not without rebuilding the memory architecture outside of their instrument on a PC (i.e. dumping to a USB stick all, in this case, MIDI/song files) and inspecting using tools that tally up the events.

At rest a song with 1 event on the instrument looks the same as a song with 100,000+ events. We're missing some water-line indicators and perhaps per-file/object statistics in order to facilitate knowing which song/pattern to offload (backup and delete or look into editing away events). There are lots of useful ways to present the data. Like total events and then the top 3 by total within a file - 50,000 total events, 30k AT, 10k SN, 5.2k Note. Not sure where to draw the line of information overload (there should be some line). At present there is an information deficit if the keyboard can get log jammed with no possibility of knowing the nature of the issue on-board.

Currently I still do not know if I’m able to record a ~20 recording (and the synth will not stop it in the 17th minute) - unless I delete all my songs/patterns (just to be on the safe side).

Unlimited recording is a strange concept (but is at your disposal, see below)...

...but when you are recording 20+ minutes of MIDI data to the internal sequencer, I would highly recommend that EVERY TIME you do so, you clear your Sequencer first. It only makes sense.

If you know how to SAVE and LOAD your MODX data, then this is not a big issue. When you first get the instrument, each Save and each Load is a big deal, but as you learn and get to know the system, it’s no big deal, at all. Restoring data is easy enough (if not, you want to get to that comfort level).

I worked for many years in a Recording Studio. When doing a session you had these massive 12.5lbs reels of 2” tape, that you recorded at either 15 or 30ips (inches per second). Normally, you could get several recordings on a single reel... but when do you look at the remaining tape and have to make that decision - “should we try to fit one more?” What do you do? What do you do?

Hey, if it is important (and of course, it is) clear your memory. Get another reel of tape!!!

Once you are used to using the MONTAGE/MODX, you start to realize that loading data to the USER Bank is not a catastrophe. Newbies fear overwriting the User Bank... it takes a while to realize if you’ve already SAVED your work, you never have to worry. When you create something new, you SAVE. The data in your User Bank if it was loaded from a file, then no worries, you still have that file. Clearing the internal User Bank should be no big deal.

I initialize my User Bank at the start of each Project... and the locations in the User Bank will eventually all be apart of the current project - I recall sounds from the Presets or from a Library and Import them to my current User Bank... whether it’s a single composition or a suite of compositions all the stuff I use gets moved to that User Bank. I use the entire synth for each project... assembling finished compositions into memory is a separate thing.

If I was looking to record for an extended time (say 10-20 minutes), the exact amount unknown, I would certainly start with a “fresh piece of paper” - “a new reel of tape” - meaning an empty Sequencer, as well as an empty User Bank. Any estimate about the number of notes/events is an approximation. Just like no one knows how many notes are in a melody... no one, not even Jason, knows how many notes/events they’ve played in twenty minutes, in ten minutes, in the last 10 seconds... I don’t see this as a shortcoming at all, just a rabbit hole with no good solution at the bottom.

The spec is always given as “events” because MIDI sequencing is not just Note events. A single note-on event is often accompanied by controller movement which uses memory. I mean if it told you - you’ve got 76,347 events left... you might think that you’ll feel better about it when you ran out, but you still wouldn’t know when or if you were going to run out in three minutes, ten minutes or not at all (because you have no idea how many events you’ll need). You’re a human, your brain doesn’t care, doesn’t count, can’t even guess-timate the number. Either way if you run out, you’ll feel the same bummer feeling, that you ran out of memory.

Would you feel better if you ran out of memory, but at least you knew that 76,347 wasn’t enough memory for what you just improvised? All you’ll know is it didn’t fit. My point: is even if you know what you are going to play, no one knows how many notes, how many events, they’ll need. I contend whether you run out knowing or not knowing, reality is the same: you ran out. A better solution is to eliminate the possibility, if at all possible.

At least... If you start with an empty Sequencer, and you run out of room... you’ll feel better knowing it wasn’t going to fit anyway... lol ?

What you can do
You can record an unlimited number of Notes and Events directly to a USB stick inserted in the USB “TO HOST” Port... your limit there is a maximum of 74 minutes. But as many notes and as many events as you can generate in 74 minutes.... (you can function as a normal human, and NOT CARE!!!)

The Performance Recorder has three functions:
MIDI Song — linear MIDI Recording
Audio — direct to USB stick
Pattern — loop based MIDI Recording

Tons o’ MIDI data
Since when you record extended 10-20 minute sessions, I would imagine MIDI event editing is not on the table... because if it is, then you may eventually need to move the data to Cubase or your favorite DAW, for detailed event Editing.

Therefore, I imagine you are recording MIDI and then cutting and pasting regions of the data into shorter segments.. or a similar workflow (?). ...which is viable workflow for the internal Sequencer.

This can also be done with your data if you record it as Audio. The Wav can be shuttled over to your computer. Simply drop the Wav into a Cubase Project. You can work with it in the DAW. Even add additional tracks...

I simply don’t see any shortcoming here...
Even if there was a scale showing how many notes or events you have left to record, it would be an approximation (at best) and again, when do you decide “do I have enough room on the reel, to start a new song?”

Yes, clear the Sequencer, first - if you don’t know (and you don’t) how many notes/events you are going to generate, give yourself the best possible shot to capture your inspiration.
Clear the Sequencer. When/If you exceed the Sequencer memory, at least you know that having a scale that counted down the memory would not have helped, anyway.

Better: Open your FREE copy of Cubase AI
Create one MIDI Track, set to Channel = “Any” (so it records all Parts to separate channels)
You can configure it so you can record all day long...
With a little preparation with MIDI Clock sync’ing, you’ll be able to capture hours of MIDI playing with no worries about number of notes/events.

Of course, your mileage may vary depending on what your ultimate goal is... you said you have 40 Songs and 40 Patterns already in the Folders... when you attempted to record for 10 minutes ... are they each long extended works?

Hope that helps.

Thanks Bad Mister. I understand your point of view and I agree that the size of MIDI data doesn’t linearly correspond to the length of recording. However, even in the Recording Studio, you could see how much tape left for recording and act accordingly;)

What would be nice for our synth is to get something like an “1 line” indicator (especially during recording) showing you the %/scale of used/available memory.
This would let us finish the recording on time and save it safely into MODX or USB stick (in case of memory shortage). Currently, the recording is lost when you face a “Data memory full” message.

[..]Once you are used to using the MONTAGE/MODX, you start to realize that loading data to the USER Bank is not a catastrophe. Newbies fear overwriting the User Bank... it takes a while to realize if you’ve already SAVED your work, you never have to worry. When you create something new, you SAVE. The data in your User Bank if it was loaded from a file, then no worries, you still have that file. Clearing the internal User Bank should be no big deal.
I initialize my User Bank at the start of each Project...[..]

How you actually initialize User Bank at the start of each Project? I’m asking as I noticed that “Initialize User Data” doesn’t affect Pattern/Song folders (so Sequencer Data is not wiped out and requires manual cleaning of Song/Pattern folders). This is depicted on page 23 of “MODX Reference Manual” (attached) and shown that the Song/Pattern data are stored within User Memory however they are not included in the “User file” .X8U.
So, in order to backup and restore all patterns/songs (Sequencer Data), you need to use “MODX Connect” and manually drag/drop multiple midi files. Of course, you can use “Backup File” to dump the entire synth memory (with User Data, Libraries, Songs/Performance, Waveforms) - but it’s not suitable if you _only_ would like to wipe out/backup/restore sequencer data (songs/patterns) during the project workflow.

Do you know if there is a “one-step” simple approach to backup & restore Pattern/Song folders?

I understand your point of view and I agree that the size of MIDI data doesn’t linearly correspond to the length of recording. However, even in the Recording Studio, you could see how much tape left for recording and act accordingly;)

That’s because the magnetic tape was time based... 15 minutes at 30ips and 30 minutes at 15ips... so your guess-timate was based on time — which gets eaten at a consistent rate. MIDI data is the antithesis of a consistent rate of generation/usage... therefore, an indicator that showed you had one third of the memory left - tells you nothing about how much time that is for recording... How fast is that remaining memory going to be eaten up? With notes/events... it remains an unknown — the number of events generated by a mono synth lead doing a solo is insanely more data than even a two-handed piano piece played fortissimo over the same number of measures. You dig? lol

You are given a very accurate accounting of the record time available when you use, as recommended, the Audio Record function of the Performance Recorder (have you tried it?) unlimited Notes, unlimited Controller events, unlimited Sysex usage... and accurate time count... Hmmm ! 74 minutes continuous recording maximum (dependent on USB stick size and available room).

I try not to deal in what “would be nice”... but attempt to offer users what you can do now. Discussions of “would be nice” are best placed on IdeaScale. Or for the bar, after hours.

How you actually initialize User Bank at the start of each Project? I’m asking as I noticed that “Initialize User Data” doesn’t affect Pattern/Song folders (so Sequencer Data is not wiped out and requires manual cleaning of Song/Pattern folders).

That is correct. The Sequencer has two Folders - one for Song, one for Pattern.

These remain in memory and are not apart of the USER BANK.
Understand this— the User Bank is defined by the following;
640 Performances
2048 Waveforms
2048 Live Set slots (8 Banks of 256)
256 Arpeggios
256 Motion Sequences
32 Curves
8 MicroTunings

They do not include the MIDI data of the Sequencer. Nor the .Wav Files written to a USB stick.
The Songs and Patterns can be linked with any Performance, whether that Performance is in the Factory Preset Bank, the User Bank, or one of the 8 Library Banks.

When you load a .X8U User File, it replaces the User Bank, Loading a User or Library File does not affect your Sequencer.

Think of the Synthesizer and Sequencer as two separate items... because they are.
The Synthesizer is the band (the instruments, the mixer, etc) while the Sequencer is the music the band plays (the musical compositions)

You can have 128 Song titles and 128 Pattern Sequences/Chains in memory for permanent access.
A Performance can be linked to Song or Pattern title... it references the Sequences number slot in the Song or Pattern Folder.
Each different User Bank that you Load can have links to your Song/Pattern repertoire which remain in memory until you individually DELETE the title directly or you initialize your entire MODX.

The “Initialize All Data” — means your MODX will be wiped clean of all content added — and returns it to factory, right out of the box condition.
The “Initialize User Data” — means your User Bank (Perf, Live Sets, Waveforms, Arps, MSeq, etc) are wiped out... the equivalent of loading a blank User Bank.
The “Initialize All Settings” — means your Utility Settings are returned to factory.

Do not mix these up... if possible, stop and consider what you are doing... never guess.

Song titles and Pattern Sequences can be managed by navigating to their Folders.
Press[UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Data Utility” > tap the Song or Pattern Folder to view its contents.
You can manage them here
You can Delete them one at a time... or tap “Job” (green is active)
You can now place a check mark next to each title you wish to Delete or you can tap “Select All”, then tap “Delete”

Restoring .mid files to a Sequencer should be familiar to you if you have been around MIDI for more than a minute.
In the MODX sequencer, like most DAWs, as well, you restore them one at a time.

Do you know if there is a “one-step” simple approach to backup & restore Pattern/Song folders?

Restoring .mid files to a Sequencer should be familiar to you if you have been around MIDI for more than a minute.

Nope.

Can't see it.

How are Pattern/Song folders easily backed up from MODX, and then easily restored to the MODX, if needs be?

How are Pattern/Song folders easily backed up from MODX, and then easily restored to the MODX, if needs be?

[UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Save” > set the “Content Type” = Backup File
This will allow you to store all data that you may have added to your instrument including (Libraries, Songs, Patterns) plus your entire current User Bank. This FILE (.X8A) when loaded back to your MODX, or any other MODX, will recreate your instrument in every detail.

Once you create this file, put it on the side.
You can now record your new composition to the Sequencer (cleared as described in the previous post by managing the Song Folder).
When you have completed work on the new Sequence, save it as a .mid file to a USB stick.

Next Step is to add this new composition to your others...
__ Restore your Backup File.
__ Finally, load the .mid file to the internal Sequencer — this will add it to your current data.
If it doesn’t fit while your other 40+ titles are in the Sequencer, you’ll at least have it as a separate file. (Far better than running out of memory while recording and winding up with nothing).

If it does fit with your other data.... You can update your Backup File at your leisure (if you wish) thus adding the new composition to your data.