The "Inspiration in a flash" (IIAF) library is incompatible with Montage and MODX(+).

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/problems-loading-motif-libraries#reply-118729

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/inspiration-in-a-flash

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/mandolins#reply-15591

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/yamaha-confirmed-inspiration-in-a-flash-in-montage#reply-74735

This set is not the only one incompatible. Anything with 8-bit, LPC, or WXC encodings are not supported. This mostly covers either really old content (like the Motif Classic's Power Grand which was 8-bits) or more recent content using WXC or LPC compression (primarily free promotional material released) which also serves to protect the data from being copied to different keyboards since the audio content is more or less encrypted using these formats. At least they haven't been reverse engineered by anyone that I am aware of.

Thanks for the links.
Doesn't the last thread suggest that Yamaha thought or reissueing the Inspiration-In-A-Flash for MODX/Montage ?
(4 years ago ?)

I think Yamaha overstated the likelihood that a conversion would be done early on. Later that was revised to a much softer stance. "We might release it if the stars align" [paraphrase]. They haven't aligned.

Two comments of a (rather happy) Yamaha customer, and an extra question.

Comment 1

I have to say to one of my motivation for buying a MODX+6 over the MOXF8 I am happy about was that I thought that I would have (among other things) a portable version of my MOXF (for travel / gigs).
I begin to understand that it will not be easy to actually get the sounds I ended up liking and using on my MOXF8... It is a bit frustrating, even if I can understand that there is intellectual property (in particulary with patches developped by third party companies) on some of the material: If did pay for it when I bought the MOXF, and then I had the illusion that things would be transferable smoothly to the MODX.

Comment 2

On the Inspiration in a flash library that I use on my MOXF8, there are in fact a few sound samples that I do like ("Tenor Max Express", "Live Scat" and associated dooh, daah voices, and several "Real Sections"). In the data list, all of them are mentionned as coming from"Yamaha Corporation"... which makes me believe that they are not concerned with arguments of Intellectual Property for third-party companies. And thus it makes me think that it is in fact a politicial decision of Yamaha not to make sound material smoothly transferable to MODX/MONTAGE. Am I right here ?

Question:

I would really like to find a way to get these nice "Yamaha Corporation" voices on my MODX. Though I'd be a bit bitter about paying twice for something, is there a way to buy them somewhere ? (in which libraries may I find them ?) (and this is maybe not the right place, but with a profile like mine (owner of MOXF and MODX) would it be conceivable to have a special discount ?)

Thanks,
Bruno

PS: More generally, is there a searchable database where one could look directly for simple patches, and see in which libraries one can get them ?

("Tenor Max Express", "Live Scat" and associated dooh, daah voices, and several "Real Sections").

"Tenor Max" might be close. When I look at Tenor Max Express I notice that velocities 1-79 layers a sample "SweetTenor" with a preset Waveform "Tenor Sax2 Hard" - which is something also inside MODX. "SweetTenor" for C-2 (lowest note possibe) through D#4 use LPC encoding which is not compatible. E4-G8 have samples that can convert although that's not where the tenor sax is "sweet".

"Live Scat" - check out "Jazz Singers". There are also "Gospel" choir parts with various vocals and "Latin Vocal". For the various dooh and daahs you can create your own Parts by using the Waveforms that make up these various choir Performances.

"Real Sections" - you may want to check out the Brass category and Ensemble sub-category. I usually use "Power Section" which I think of as (Tower of)Power Section. I use other brass ensembles depending. The sax ones are in Woodwind/Saxophone Main/Sub categories. I get little use out of those as I normally want saxes+brass which are in the Brass category.

This stuff just isn't in any library. It's either already in your instrument or on the shelf somewhere unobtainable. The 3rd party content is all that has had some amount of support.

The other thing you could do is buy Sample Robot (or similar) and sample your MOXF playing these IIAF Voices/Performances you want to transfer. For MODX, there's a cost for Sample Robot. It may be worth it. Not that you should have to go through all of this -- but it is an option. You can use the demo version of the Motif Waveform Editor (John Melas tools) to see where the velocity layers are if you want to know.

Your frustration has been shared by others. I think most from these older threads have found replacement content mostly already inside MODX/Montage.

The official distribution point for MODX content would be https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/downloadables and you would search for "MODX" which should return what mentions "MODX". Some of these mention that they are NOT compatible. Such as:

PLEASE NOTE: This product is currently NOT compatible with Montage and MODX models.

... so be sure to check.

There's also a way to search by keyboard. When you search by "MODX" - it will return incompatible libraries. Those libraries mention the incompatibility if you read the details.

Thanks again for the long and detailed answer.

[ I don't necessarily want to have the last word on the topic, but it would be so simpler for Yamaha custommers if Yamaha MODX was really compatible with the Yamaha sounds of Yamaha MOXF, and if the deep reason is to protect IP for sounds that are not sold anywhere.... I am a bit wordless 😮 --- Let me stop, and move on ]

I am willing to reproduce the sounds mentionned with the waveforms of MODX.

1) For the sax, what I think I liked particularly in the "Tenor Max Express" is all the many noises due to the the breath through the instrument (I find it really gives it a living nature). Does anyone see waveforms that I could use to add these kind of noises to the Tenor Max Modx ?

2) For the voices, the "Live scat of MODX" generates different sounds doo/daah/etc.. depending on the velocity (in particular if I play a chord with same velocity on all notes, I will get the same "words" pronunced). The "Jazz singers" has lots of nice variations, but the generation is random (or maybe cyclic). I guess this can be configured by hand (I would like to have the same behavior as "Live Scat", a sound depending on the velocity). Any advice (or link to some kind of tutorial on how to do that, or maybe the right place in the reference manual) is welcome!

3) For the MOXF "Real Sections" kind of sounds, I have to confess that I haven't taken enough time to dig sufficiently into the MODX and I guess I should find something, indeed. Thanks for the refs on Power Section, I'll have a serious look (or shoud I say a serious listening!)

As a fellow keyboard player - I don't represent Yamaha in any way. I don't really know why they do what they do but copy protection has been mentioned before by Yamaha. The other thing I speculate is that this generation Montage broke away from a previous CPU and Linux (Montavista) employed in the previous Motif XF. It's been speculated by others that this generation isn't able to cut/paste the code from the predecessor so a majority of the OS/CPU side coding is "grounds up". As I read that - it seemed to make sense and I started to think of the implications of this on WXC and LPC encoding. Maybe there's none (no connection here) -- I would want this decode to happen inside the tone generator ICs instead of an external CPU. This is always how I imagined the decoding of WXC/LPC worked. However, if this is a function of the CPU then I can see how some of this code got "left on the table" as the team focused on getting other core features working. Also, the new code may use a yet newer/different compression algorithm that bests WXC and LPC in terms of performance and compression ratios. There may have been some intent at some point to convert over past promotional material to the new algorithm(s) but something did fall by the wayside. It's also possible that the end result of this conversion wasn't up to snuff and rather than release "garbage" they decided to cancel it altogether. What this would have meant is to go back and recreate all of this from scratch - an undertaking probably not in the budget from a resource (people power) and expense (dollars, or yen) standpoint. We can both speculate about the why and likely will be wrong or incomplete. Whatever the reason(s) - I do not see this content coming to MODX or Montage unless you do it yourself.

Since you haven't really dug into the MODX - I would suggest searching for some equivalence. Tenor Max vs Tenor Max express is only really one sample different so maybe you can swap out one of the Tenor layers with something else and get close. I guess I could load up IIAF to my Motif XF and see what you're talking about -- how it may differ from the other MODX tenor presets. I don't use saxophone for anything in my music since acoustic horns are already part of the ensemble. I only use sax when I'm trying to get that artificial synth horn sound and usually mixed with other brass. Therefore, I haven't looked for a subtone kind of sound which would be the breathy stuff you're alluding to. Maybe there's the samples or presets to cover this already - I just don't know off the cuff.

The other sounds I do use more frequently (not the scat patch -- but I've used it enough on Montage for "fun" and some cover songs I use the "Doh" and "Dah" and various vocal recordings). So I know for the most part you should be covered without having to load any more additional content. Dig around and see what you find.

Also remember that superknob can morph or influence the character of the sound -- so check out what it does in every Performance. Of course the [ASSIGN 1/2] buttons typically will do something - mod wheel - and all the like. There's an [AUDITION] button that will have the original programmer's take on how their creation can be utilized and "showed off". While the audition is running you can see the superknob knob and the assignable knobs have a screen you can watch those move too.

Let me reiterate my findings on this subject (which I researched extensively while I worked for Yamaha) — see this post from 4 years ago — conversion has been completed …long time ago.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/yamaha-confirmed-inspiration-in-a-flash-in-montage?start=20#reply-72727

Since I was successfully playing that data way back then, the issue is not technical. Not at all… it’s clearance rights. I wouldn’t have teased about it had I not thought it was very close… but the final step: “signing off” on it legally was the messy part.

The sounds were assembled from various anniversary sets, and this typically means multiple programmers, sources, scores of musicians, vocalists, and recording sessions. Yamaha hires some of the world’s top musicians, and orchestras (in addition to some of the world’s top programmers) to create some of these sound-sets… and the data often is earmarked for specific use cases.

Agreements may include clauses that state ‘for use in this particular one-time anniversary promotion, only’ or ‘in such-and-such series of products, only’ — I’m not saying that is the case, but it is a likely enough case, that to proceed without caution is just ill advised corporately. (particularly on a giveaway). I would say if you haven’t seen it by now… the “news” was not good news!