The only thing I now miss is playing the multisound piano on the MODX in songs where only the piano sounds. For me it would be perfect if I could very quick change from midi multi to midi single, for instant to play the cfx concert piano in a quiet song. And after that switching the midi setting back again to the single sound performances.

You can switch between MIDI multi and MIDI single. In other words, your first MODX Performance could be setup so that you are playing a single Part slot (1) using your external controller and a Multi Part sound using the MODX keys... this you described, by deactivating KBD CTRL. In your next MODX Performance you can be set to play the “CFX Concert” from your single channel transmit MIDI keyboard...

This is possible by setting “MIDI I/O Mode” = Hybrid as you’re default setting... and choose CH 1, as this is what your external keyboard will be sending. The “CFX Concert” or any KBD CTRL Parts will be triggered on Channel 1 and will sound in response to incoming MIDI.

If you are are using the MODX as a master controller activate the Zone Switch within a Performance to override the “MIDI I/O Setting” and customize this Performance as you require.

Each User Performance can setup as you require... because unless a Zone Switch is activated within a Performance, the MIDI I/O Mode = Hybrid will apply.

I can appreciate not wanting to carry extra equipment and also wanting to have the controls in front of you instead of having to press buttons to change the sliders to different PARTs.

As I understand it, your new goal is to use direct connections without computers or devices to handle MIDI channel assignment and also use the 4 sliders to control all of your PART volumes.

"CFX Concert" is a wrinkle because it uses 4 PARTs and therefore you cannot have external control of 1 PART plus "CFX Concert" - because that would take 5 PARTs and not all PARTs would be under slider 1-4 control in entirety (without pressing buttons to get the sliders to change PART focus).

I'm not sure how single channel mode helps this.

Mainly because this:

The only thing I now miss is playing the multisound piano on the MODX in songs where only the piano sounds.

Sounds like you want to play the multi-PART piano using MODX's local piano keys and not an external MIDI controller. It would make more sense if you did this, switching to single-channel mode, in order for the external keyboard to address multi-PART instruments. Because this is the "only" way - combining multiple PARTs together using keyboard control=ON and using a single MIDI channel for the receive. However, this doesn't appear to be what you've described. Let me know if you have a clarification.

Pending clarification, not sure if this is what you're after - but here it goes ...

If I was going to be playing "CFX Concert" with local MODX piano keys and I wanted sliders to control volumes - I'd setup Channel 1 for external control - as you've done before and use channels 2-5 as "CFX Concert" with keyboard control=ON for those 4 PARTs. PART 5 in this case would only be the key-off sounds. I'm not sure it would be "bad" or not (depends on range of the volume slider control you want) to have key-off volumes outside of the range of "in front of you sliders". If the default volume was either too loud or too soft - I'd adjust the volume level of that PART and set it at a happy medium that works at all of my slider levels I use for PARTs 1-4. Alternatively - it's a bit of a hassle to move more than 1 slider to affect the volume of a single instrument no matter if the sliders are all in front of you or not. In order to "fix" this - you could program either super knob or one assignable knob to adjust the volumes of all 4 PARTs of "CFX Concert" simultaneously.

I personally don't enjoy using knobs for volume (a previous MO keyboard got rid of sliders and used knobs instead - really didn't like that) -- but between the two evils - I'd settle for a single knob vs a collection of sliders. That is -- if the key-off noise really needs volume control in front of you.

@Jason

Sounds like you want to play the multi-PART piano using MODX's local piano keys and not an external MIDI controller.

Sounds opposite to me - the two alternate controllers are weighted action (not suitable for backpacking) I assume the object was to play the CFX Concert 4 PART when the piano was to be used alone - in quiet songs... At this point its not an issue to play the MODX keys... just the 4 Parts of the CFX Concert from a controller that is limited to just one MIDI Channel Out,.

@Jason

I personally don't enjoy using knobs for volume (a previous MO keyboard got rid of sliders and used knobs instead - really didn't like that)

Anything assigned to a Knob can be assigned to a Foot Controller (Knobs and Volume are a natural, however. A gazillion radios, home stereos, amplifiers, etc., etc., cannot be wrong!). But no accounting for what someone likes... When using an ASSIGN KNOB as your multi-Part "mini Super Knob" you can set your FC7 to control whichever Assign Knob you choose. Say you task ASSIGN KNOB 8 to control the PART VOLUME of each of the four CFX Concert Parts, then by setting your FC7 = cc24 it can be used to control the KBD CTRL Parts.

I know, I know, you probably personally don't like using Foot Controller either... but it's an option!

Yes, inference would say it only makes sense they want to use an external controller and that's why single channel mode makes sense. I quoted the OP and explained why I thought the statements made appeared inconsistent with what reasonably makes sense. If I take what was quoted literally, only MODX is named as the device being used "playing on ... MODX" sounds like interacting with the keyboard (to me) if taken more at face value than by inference. But that's just my personal bias with connotation.

I wouldn't have to guess if the statement wasn't ambiguous - so I asked for a clarification to remove ambiguity.

Despite my bias against knobs for volume (vs sliders) - I suggested using this as a solution in the case with assumptions I stated.

I haven't been clear enough.

In most songs I need 3 or 4 sounds, so I want to play piano or epiano on the weighted keys (with just one channel), at the same time playing leads or pads on the MODX keys. Therefor midi settings 'multi' works fine.

But then 1 song comes along in which its just the singer and the piano, and then I would like to play a multipart piano cfx concert (on the weighted keys). So midi 'single' is needed just for this song.

And after that song I want to go back to midi 'multi' for the next song.

That's why I thought: why can't they implement the midi state to be saved together with each performance? Then every performance can choose the right midi state, and you wouldn't have to leave the live set display at all..

Also I am struggling with what the midi 'hybrid' state exactly does. I will try that and experiment further..

But then 1 song comes along in which its just the singer and the piano, and then I would like to play a multipart piano cfx concert (on the weighted keys). So midi 'single' is needed just for this song.

Thanks for the clarification.

Also I am struggling with what the midi 'hybrid' state exactly does. I will try that and experiment further..

If your external keyboard is only targeting PARTs with Keyboard Control=ON, then - with respect to external control - single and multi modes are the "same".

What hybrid mode allows for you to do is target, with your external keyboard/device/computer, any PART that has keyboard control=OFF as long as the MIDI channel your external device uses matches the PART #.

In single mode, if keyboard control=OFF for PART 9 - you cannot access PART 9 with an external device. Only PARTs with keyboard control=ON would you be able to target with an external controller/device.

In hybrid mode, if keyboard control=OFF for PART 9 - you can access PART 9 with an external device as long as the external device transmits on MIDI channel 9.

Note: I'm just using "PART 9" as an example. This can be any PART with keyboard control=OFF from PART 1-16.

If your external MIDI device can only transmit on one channel and you also want to target more than one PART at a time - then Hybrid mode does not help this situation since what you are doing with single-channel mode is about the best you can do under this configuration. Hybrid mode, vs single, primarily deals with how the keyboard control=OFF PARTs respond to MIDI. Since these can only be addressed one-at-a-time (they will always, in hybrid mode, be in different MIDI channels) - use of this mode will not necessarily buy you anything in terms of external control.

Also - even though you can assign a combined MIDI channel of say transmit/receive channel for hybrid mode = MIDI channel 9 -- you cannot simultaneously use the combined (assigned) MIDI channel and a PART with keyboard control=OFF even when they overlap.

For instance, say I'm in hybrid mode. I have PARTs 1-8 with keyboard control=ON and the combined transmit/receive channel is channel 9. If I have a single-PART piano in PART 9, this PART will not be combined with PARTs 1-8 even though I picked channel 9. What will happen is that priority will be given to the assigned MIDI channel (parts 1-8 combined on channel 9) and PART 9 will not sound even though the external controller is transmitting on channel 9 and hybrid mode says that keyboard control=OFF parts will receive on their MIDI channel matching the PART. This is not true if that PART (with keyboard control=OFF) happens to match the assigned combined transmit/receive channel for hybrid mode.

I have a similar setup (kinda). I'm using a Keylab 49 to do Hammond. Got everything on the Keylab set to CH10 and put the Hammond performance on part 10. Works great so far, but I need some help to further tweak it nice.

I want to to use the sliders on the Keylab like drawbars to control the volume of each of the elements which will be set up for 16', 8' waveforms etc. Could someone walk me thru the process? I can reset the CC# of each slider if that would help. Now most of the sliders do nothing except CC72 which seems to control Release.

John

Not similar or related other than it deals with MIDI and interfacing two devices. Your thread has more detail and someone should fill in the blanks there.

Dear John,
Did you have a solution for this problem?
Like you I want to use also sliders as drawbars on a connected midi-keyboard.
But I can't find how I can arrange so that the MODX can 'listen' to the CC#s that my midi-keyboard sends out when I change the volume of each slider....
With regards,
Gerard

Greetings,
I just bought a Modx7 and use it similar to what Rens had posted.
So here is what worked for me to get my single channel external weighted controller (on Channel 4) to play a piano but play strings/brass/organ from the Modx in a single performance
and then will also to switch to a multi-part performance immediately without having to change the Utility Midi I/O setting.

A. First, I have to make my global changes in Utility.
Utility -> Settings
Zone Master: On
Midi I/O Mode: Hybrid
Midi I/O Ch: 4 (external controller set to transmit on channel 4)

B. Go to a Performance which set up with the following parts: 1) Strings, 2) Brass, 3) Organ, and 4) Piano
Edit -> Zone Settings
Zone: On
1) Kbd Ctrl: On (strings)
2) Kbd Ctrl: On (brass)
3) Kbd Ctrl: Off (organ)
4) Kbd Ctrl: Off (piano)

This setup will allow the Piano to play from the external controller and the strings and brass to be played on the Modx.
The organ was deliberately turned off just to add to the example that you could still assign a part but turn off the sound.
So, the Kbd Ctrl is effective in this case as to select only the sounds that the Modx will play.

C. Go to Performance "CFX + FM EP" which has mulitple parts to make one big patch on the external weighted controller (still on Channel 4).
Edit -> Zone Settings
Zone: On
1) Kbd Ctrl: On (piano)
2) Kbd Ctrl: On (piano)
3) Kbd Ctrl: On (piano)
4) Kbd Ctrl: On (piano)
5) Kbd Ctrl: On (Keys FM Piano)

*Note that the Modx will also play all channels with Kbd Ctrl: On

In conclusion, the only limitation I found is being able to play a multi-layered patch "CFX + FM EP" from the external controller (still on Channel 4)
while muting these parts 1-5 on the Modx and assign the Modx to channels 6-16 to play other sounds other than the "CFX + FM EP" from channels 1-5.
Unless someone has already figured this out, I don't think that is possible on the Modx.

I know this could be done on the MOFX in song mode because the parts 1-16 each had control over the midi in channel.
I wish the Modx was capable of assigning the midi in channels on each of the 16 parts, that way my controller on channel 4 could trigger multiple parts within a performance separate from the Modx local.
Oh well, can't have it all I guess, but I'm pretty happy with the capabilities that Modx offers.
Hope this helps...

In order to get just about any configuration to work, you would need to have an external MIDI controller supporting 8 zones. This would give your local keyboard an even split of dedicated PARTs (8) while your external keyboard gets its own range of 8 PARTs. And these 8 PARTs could be multi-PART such as "CFX + FM EP" or "Seattle Strings" or combinations of single PARTs or mixed single + multi as long as they all fit (for the given keyboard - external or local) within 8 PARTs max.

The most flexible arrangement is to have an external keyboard supporting 16 zones. Then you could have the external keyboard completely "take over" all PARTs or you could have the local keyboard control only 1 or 2 PARTs while the external keyboard controls 15 or 14.

Kurzweil keyboards generally support 16 zones. "Dumb" MIDI controllers such as NI's Komplete Kontrol S88 MK2 supports 16 zones. Novation's SL series MK3 supports 8 zones but no 88 key version yet. There's other keyboards that support 16 or 8 zones.

Yes - it "stinks" that Montage/MODX has painted itself in a corner where MIDI receive channels cannot be configured.

A previous thread I assumed that Montage/MODX was architecturally bound to fixed channels due to how Yamaha elected to "code"/connect/build the current system of flat Performances combined with motion control and motion sequence (the parameter matrix). And that things may "blow up" if you took the legs out from under the table and started reassigning MIDI receive channels. Here's an excerpt:

It's not hard to build a house on a concrete foundation. But if you build a house on top of dirt - it becomes difficult to retro-fit a foundation even though it's super simple to have one poured from the start. Sometimes you paint yourself into a corner. I can't say either way if the knots are too tangled to untie and re-align. I haven't seen Yamaha come out and make any calls either way. The inference is that the foundation analogy (or a spaghetti bowl) is closer to what's there than a slip-knot ready for reconfiguration.

There are earlier threads (through the years) where I theorize the same thing.

... and the update is that Yamaha has "come out" and made a call. It was in a "Behind The Synth" podcast where Nate made a comment specifically about why MIDI receive channels cannot be configurable. The "blow up" / meltdown theory was confirmed by what he said. I'd have to rewind and roll the tape to get an exact quote. But it was a relatively recent podcast just prior to NAMM 2020.

Hi all,

It really is very very very regretful that the parts of the MODX/Montage are tied fixed MIDI channels and that you need midi master keyboards with multiple zones to play the MODX/Montage multiperformances (and play multiple parts from the MODX/Montage at the same time. I replaced my existing 2 zone master keyboard for this by a 4 zone board, but it's still no satisfying solution.

This really should be picked up in next sw release!

This solution is not desirable, or I must be missing the boat terribly here.......

Is 4 zone not desirable because you're missing out on having more zones (you need 8 or 16 in your external keyboard and you'd be fine) - or something else that makes this a pain?