There just aren't enough scenes to use scenes to switch sounds and arps because you've mentioned wanting to switch between 8 instruments and that would take up all of your scenes unless you use two buttons.

This is where the value of Montage comes in. There are not buttons for keyboard select - but scenes can be used for that. And then arpeggio selection has its own set of buttons. So there's random access to any one of the 1st 8 Performances by keyboard control (scenes) and each of the arpeggios by a different set of buttons. Mute could be used if that's good enough which offers more "mix and match" capabilities.

I might have a MODX if maybe I could pay say $120 for a box that plugs into USB and gives me back the missing buttons. $120 is a steep price for what it is - but I'm looking at some "between" pricing that justifies the purchase of the inexpensive keyboard while also paying for the tooling/amortized/etc. costs on the production side.

It'd be cool (although a pipe dream) if this same box plugged into Montage and gave another 16 scenes and some other button functions. I mean, there's be 38 buttons on the thing if giving all of the RH buttons missing. So that's potentially a lot of options if a Montage could use the same box.

Note that given the piano key assignable switches need not be available keys on your keyboard - you could also use a foot controller that sends notes and those notes can be mapped beyond your physical keyboard limits.

I didn't try to map 8 keys (I used 5). Although there was lots of space left "below" the lowest key in terms of volume. I could probably tune the solution to cover 8. That's 16 units of volume for key (128 divided by 8). The tough part is how to get to the maximum 127 value. That's been difficult to do which limits the range.

Related to this discussion, I usually choose between 2 ways of using Scenes:
1) For Performances with no drums or only 1 drum pattern: Scenes for changing sounds using Part Ctrl;
2) For Performances with multiple drum patterns: Scenes for changing the drum pattern, and 'Part select mute' and/or 'Part range' for changing sounds (part range for splitting the keyboard, not having to push any buttons for changing sounds).

Situation 1 applies to:
- performances which e.g. have different kind of EPs, pianos, pads, guitar parts etc. (full keyboard playing), or: Scenes that bring in additional layers (e.g. scene 1: piano only, scene 2: pad added, scene 3: strings added etc.);
- split performances, e.g. upright bass left with piano types right, or: bass left, organ/lead sounds middle, lead or brass sounds on the right varying per Scene (multiple splits is more limited however if you don't have 88 keys).

In situation 2, I usually use Scene 1 for no drums, 2 for verse/basic pattern, 3 for break/fill and 4 for chorus/variation pattern. If you don't mind switching 'scenes control' between 1-4 and 5-8, you can also add either additional drum patterns (e.g. intro/ending) and/or other sounds (if you also you Part Ctrl in Scenes).

In my case, I usually assign 4 Parts for chords/bass (left hand), lead sound (right hand), drums and bass pedals, so even if I only use Scenes for switching drum patterns, I still have 4 Parts directly available for choosing lead sounds (right hand) using Part mute, or 12 if I also use parts 9-16.

If you uses Scenes in this way, you will typically have Performances for certain styles (e.g. 8-beat slow, bebop, bossa-nova, funk etc.), since this informs both which rhythm patterns (and fills) you are likely to use and which sounds suit this style well. So, even though the MODX will never be an arranger, this gives you a lot of flexibility in my experience.

[quotePost id=115889]I might have a MODX if maybe I could pay say $120 for a box that plugs into USB and gives me back the missing buttons. $120 is a steep price for what it is - but I'm looking at some "between" pricing that justifies the purchase of the inexpensive keyboard while also paying for the tooling/amortized/etc. costs on the production side.[/quotePost]
For a bit more than that but not ridiculous money by any means, you could get an Alesis VI61, which would give you 48 programmable buttons, plus 16 pads and 16 knobs, plus even an auxiliary keyboard that would allow you to play MODX sounds with aftertouch You'd need an iPad app or equivalent in between to map the 48 buttons to the codes you would need, though (internally, they are only programmable to CC and Program Change).

[quotePost id=115894]In situation 2, I usually use Scene 1 for no drums, 2 for verse/basic pattern, 3 for break/fill and 4 for chorus/variation pattern. If you don't mind switching 'scenes control' between 1-4 and 5-8, you can also add either additional drum patterns (e.g. intro/ending) and/or other sounds (if you also you Part Ctrl in Scenes).[/quotePost]
I understand the need to be able to specify no drums, but what's the advantage of using a Scene for that, as opposed to using the Arp on/off button?

[quotePost id=115894]In my case, I usually assign 4 Parts for chords/bass (left hand), lead sound (right hand), drums and bass pedals, so even if I only use Scenes for switching drum patterns, I still have 4 Parts directly available for choosing lead sounds (right hand) using Part mute, or 12 if I also use parts 9-16.[/quotePost]
4 drum parts plus 12 keyboard playable parts starts coming really close to my goal here. The question is, is there way for one of those keyboard playable parts to be LH bass, while the other 11 keyboard playable parts are available to select for the right hand?

I thought of another approach here, which could actually apply to this scenario or other scenarios we've discussed. It's (again) a lot of work to set up, and has its own limitations, but to the extent that the "brick wall" is keeping LH bass going (while the drums are playing, and while switching RH sounds), one could theoretically assemble a series of single Part sounds that are edited at the Element level, such that they all have LH bass "baked in." Then, to use the example from Bad Mister's very first response as one application of this, all 15 non-drum sounds could be single-Part sounds that use some Elements for LH bass and other Elements for the desired RH sound. In conjunction with the later thought if using Scenes for changing drum patterns for different parts of the song, this could be the closest solution yet. And the Part Overlay screen could make the target buttons easier to hit than trying to hit them all from within the 16-part screen. The limited on-screen labeling functionality is still a bit of an issue, but if the idea is to just set up a single Performance that you use for this function (for all the songs it is applicable for), one could even tape a cheat sheet with the names/locations of the 15 sounds.

Possible issue: I'm not sure whether the bass sound might glitch if you're playing a bass line (or holding a bass note) through a transition from one of these 2-Part sounds to another. Other limitations: Having to assemble all those sounds manually in the first place. Being limited in the sounds you can choose from in assembling them (e.g. is you want, say, a 3 element bass sound, your RH sounds would be limited to ones of no more than 5 elements). But it does provide for yet another way someone might be able to accomplish this type of goal. I think this might actually even be sufficient for my needs, though the initial setup would be a bit of a bear.

I understand the need to be able to specify no drums, but what's the advantage of using a Scene for that, as opposed to using the Arp on/off button?

This way, switching back to Scene 1 not only stops the drums but also selects the sounds for this Scene (if you use Part Select in Scenes). If you don't want/need this, using Arp on/off works fine too and frees up a Scene spot.

The question is, is there way for one of those keyboard playable parts to be LH bass, while the other 11 keyboard playable parts are available to select for the right hand?

I use key range per part to assign sounds for playing bass/LH vs. lead/RH (and additional sounds for other key ranges if required), which is easy - but I suspect that this may not be what you mean?

one could theoretically assemble a series of single Part sounds that are edited at the Element level, such that they all have LH bass "baked in

I wouldn't want this, not only because it requires a lot of programming work, but this also hugely limits your flexibility while playing. Besides, as far as I've experienced, there's no need to do this.

[quotePost id=115897]

The question is, is there way for one of those keyboard playable parts to be LH bass, while the other 11 keyboard playable parts are available to select for the right hand?

I use key range per part to assign sounds for playing bass/LH vs. lead/RH (and additional sounds for other key ranges if required), which is easy - but I suspect that this may not be what you mean?[/quotePost]
I think the issue may be that I don't understand where you said you use " 'Part select mute' and/or 'Part range' for changing sounds (part range for splitting the keyboard, not having to push any buttons for changing sounds)" -- I'd normally LH bass on the bottom two octaves, while picking different RH sounds as needed to play above the LHB split point. How do you pick the 12 different RH sounds as needed without pushing buttons? I'm missing something.

Back to the idea of creating single Parts where the 8 elements are split among a LH bass sound and a RH sound, I thought of another limitation of this approach... you no longer have easy volume balancing with a volume slider for bass, a volume slider for drums, a volume slider for whatever your RH sound is.

Embedding the bass as an element split in every instrument is interesting. Two parts total running at all times if you just need bass and one other instrument. I wish scenes would SELECT Parts. This is not an option. So you cannot hit a scene button and have the instrument automatically "switch" to Parts 9-16. There's only 8 scene buttons as it is - so they can only cover 8 instruments max and then less than that if using also for arpeggio switching.

If you're up for using the touchscreen for selecting Parts 9-16 then you get the chance of 15 instruments with drums. Bass could clip depending on when you hit the button depending on where your bass is meant to start. Depends on how busy the bass line is and where the switch lands. I think mostly it would be similar to a bass player scratching their nose and missing an 8th note. But fairly seamless. Held notes wouldn't clip.

The bass vs instrument mix is still a knob away. Sliders may be preferable but you can assign superknob or an(two) expression pedal(s) for this. Where a single knob adjusts the balance - making one louder or the other softer - or both in opposite directions ("morphing" ). Two controls would give individual control. And superknob - being global, and expression pedal(s) - also global - would be preferable to assignable knobs that change personality depending on Part selection.

You can also use volume sliders for this but there are too many rules for that to work and you burn a Part. More envelope follower applications. Sliders are mainly a one trick pony unless you're willing to throw resources overboard and use narrowly (part control slider volume, not element).

I think the issue may be that I don't understand where you said you use " 'Part select mute' and/or 'Part range' for changing sounds (part range for splitting the keyboard, not having to push any buttons for changing sounds)" -- I'd normally LH bass on the bottom two octaves, while picking different RH sounds as needed to play above the LHB split point. How do you pick the 12 different RH sounds as needed without pushing buttons?

In ‘my situation 2’ (Scenes primarily controlling drum pattern changes for that performance style), mostly I initially assign 4 part sounds (left hand, right hand, bass pedal, drums), which means that I can program 16-4=12 alternative sounds that fit this performance (style). However, I do need to push a button to change sounds: I use Part Select Mute to switch parts on/off. Unless you assign sounds to key ranges, I think you’ll always have to push a button to change sounds (either Scenes or Parts on/off). But because you have programmed sounds and key ranges for the other (initially muted) Parts specifically for this performance (style), you can change sounds in a split second. This approach works well for me.

[quotePost id=115937]

I think the issue may be that I don't understand where you said you use " 'Part select mute' and/or 'Part range' for changing sounds (part range for splitting the keyboard, not having to push any buttons for changing sounds)" -- I'd normally LH bass on the bottom two octaves, while picking different RH sounds as needed to play above the LHB split point. How do you pick the 12 different RH sounds as needed without pushing buttons?

In ‘my situation 2’ (Scenes primarily controlling drum pattern changes for that performance style), mostly I initially assign 4 part sounds (left hand, right hand, bass pedal, drums), which means that I can program 16-4=12 alternative sounds that fit this performance (style). [/quotePost]
I'm not following the "which means" part. How? You're talking about Scenes, but there are only 8 scenes, so where are you getting the 16 from in the 16-4=12 equation? Shouldn't it be 8-4=4?

[quotePost id=115937]However, I do need to push a button to change sounds: I use Part Select Mute to switch parts on/off. Unless you assign sounds to key ranges, I think you’ll always have to push a button to change sounds (either Scenes or Parts on/off). But because you have programmed sounds and key ranges for the other (initially muted) Parts specifically for this performance (style), you can change sounds in a split second. This approach works well for me.[/quotePost]
Even with pushing buttons and using Part selection/muting, then, how can you access more than 8 Parts in total, IF you always want playable LH bass to the left of your split point? I don't know whether I'm misunderstanding what you're doing or you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to do. 😉 But unless you build the bass and the RH sound into a single Part at the Element label, I don't see how you can access more than 8 Parts (since only the first 8 Parts of the MODX are keyboard-playable in combination), since we need to be able to play more than a single Part (i.e. two Parts, for LH bass and a RH sound).

I don't see how you can access more than 8 Parts (since only the first 8 Parts of the MODX are keyboard-playable in combination), since we need to be able to play more than a single Part

Frankly, I use the described approach (situation 2) myself for 8 parts, not 16 and - apparently wrongly - assumed that this can be done for 16 parts as well. However, for me having 5-7 pre-selected alternative sounds per performance available at the push of one button, provides me with sufficient flexibility, since I have programmed enough style-based performances. I think you can use parts 9-16 for drums, so you only need to allocate 1 playable part to bass/LH. This means that you can freely pre-program 7 parts/sounds for each performance/style. I don't think you can have a drum pattern that is not connected to a performance, without using external gear. However, if you program Performances for each style/pattern that you want, you can allocate 8 drum patterns (controlled by Scenes) and 7 RH sounds (controlled by Part select mute) per performance, which I think is pretty good.