Most of this you know, but it's worth mentioning so things are in context.

A motion sequence is a virtual knob that can be told how to twist and turn by a pulse. The pulse is a waveform that commands the virtual knob over time to be any value from 0-127.

Ignoring superknob automation, you've got this other thing called control assignments which say that whenever a controller is "HERE", offset some parameter by some amount.

Once you use an MS Lane as a source controller - then now the position of the MS lane matters. And the limitations of this MS Lane "knob" is the same as any other controller. Pitch bend, mod wheel, assignable knobs, etc. once assigned as a source controller will always offset by the waveform that associates the source controller's position no matter which scene is selected. There's not a way to "unlink" a source controller from its destination parameter by scene or any other means.

I can see the value of having this option - but it's consistently not available.

That doesn't mean you're out of options. In the control assignment you have the source which determines the input value (0-127) then you have the output which will be an offset to the destination parameter. When the output value is set to 0 (for any one or many source controller input values) then this means the control assignment will not offset the destination parameter from its programmed value.

Now, if you use an MS Lane to drive many different destination parameters all with different curves and none of these curves agree on any single input value that produces an output value of 0 - then this won't necessarily work. However, if either you assign to multiple destinations with curves (different or same) that have some input value that each curve will output 0 OR if you only assign one destination parameter using the MS Lane source controller then you can use this to "disable" the impact of an MS Lane. You would do this by setting the pulse (the thing that defaults to green triangles) to a constant value (i.e. the "hold" pulse) which will produce a "0" output under the control assignment curve which will not offset the destination parameter.

It would be a lot easier to have the option for "off" - but with some additional burden you can arrive at the same point under certain constraints.

There's not a way to "unlink" a source controller from its destination parameter by scene or any other means.

Actually I was conceptualizing unlinking the motion sequence from the destination so that it would no longer feed an offset.

Turns out, as you describe, the lane IS the motion sequence - one and the same. So there is no unlink.

You would do this by setting the pulse (the thing that defaults to green triangles) to a constant value (i.e. the "hold" pulse) which will produce a "0" output under the control assignment curve which will not offset the destination parameter.

Yes - I happened on this when I was testing a 2nd sequence using the example you provided here:
https://yamahasynth.com/forum/motion-sequence-sync-tempo-vs-beat#reply-111545

Which, of course, was a link in this thread
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/sync-for-ms-arp

where the issue was about sync.

I naively assumed, during my tests, that if the sequence was running and I used SEQUENCE SELECT 2 to switch sets that it would stop the running sequence and just play normal.

That's when I discovered that there was already a pre-defined sequence for SELECT 2 (and 3-8) and that up-down action of the default gave it away.

Bad Mister says never ask why but I have to wonder WHY the default sequences (8 for each of the 16 parts) isn't the HOLD0 to effectively take them out of action.

I, for one, don't see ANY value in having a default of those ramps they are using. I see a lot of value if HOLD0 to not have an effect as you build out your sequences and lanes.

Fortunately, for me anyway, I long ago created my own custom versions of INIT NORMAL (AWM2), and the other 3, with mods that get rid of the many oddball defaults I have come across.

I'll just modify my custom versions to set all of the sequences to HOLD0 so it won't trip me up again.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

You say "HOLD0" I am assuming for the pulse waveform (sequence). What value you should hold depends on the control assignment curve configured outside of the MS. Say your control assignment is a bidir standard curve that slopes up from an output of -127 (from the far left, or INPUT=0) and crosses the 0 (output) line in the middle (or INPUT=64 -- so for INPUT=64, OUTPUT=0) and slopes up to an output of +127 on the far right (INPUT=127).

In this case, you'd want to hold 64 in order to have the destination parameter have no offset.

User curves can sit on OUTPUT=0 line at multiple points. So there may be several options for what value to hold.

My main point is that holding 0 isn't always the "answer".

You may mean "HOLD(whatever gets you, in the end)0".

ou say "HOLD0" I am assuming for the pulse waveform (sequence). What value you should hold depends on the control assignment curve configured outside of the MS.

That's a good point to clarify so that it covers all the bases.

I was just focusing on how I needed to modify the default 'init' performances to avoid any future surprises.

As far as I can tell that all use the same short half-ramp and default assignment curve so HOLD0 should work for my purposes.

You may mean "HOLD(whatever gets you, in the end)0".

Actually I hadn't thought that far ahead!

So I'm glad you made it clear for anyone reading the thread.

At least the SYNC is common to all 8 possible sequences you might be using. Gives some pretty weird results using your example from the other thread with a HOLD0 for the 2nd sequence since that example synced to the beat and the beat was a whole note.

Bad Mister says never ask why but I have to wonder WHY the default sequences (8 for each of the 16 parts) isn't the HOLD0 to effectively take them out of action.

I, for one, don't see ANY value in having a default of those ramps they are using. I see a lot of value if HOLD0 to not have an effect as you build out your sequences and lanes.

It’s not, never ask why, it’s, don’t necessarily expect an answer that will satisfy you. It all depends on the circumstances during discovery!

We all are victims, if you will, of thinking something should work, or default, a certain way, based on the circumstances under which we initially discover the feature or function.

(As a manufacturer) Defaulting something to 0 is always risky — in that, you run the risk of the feature never being discovered… the first timer finally figures how to turn it On, and nothing happens! …so usually the default is: ‘do something’.

If you are approaching your first Motion Sequence and it uses all 16 Cycle steps, you naturally want a default of all 0, all 64 or all 127… to one way of thinking.

But in teaching the “Motion Sequence” (step-by-step, as in a tutorial) in explaining “Cycle” steps, I would start with Cycle = 1… just as a way to illustrate what each Step is capable of doing… And I would show how the default Pulse (a minimum-to-maximum ramp) can be used to change a value from one state to another. I could show how the one Pulse could be reversed to change the value from maximum-toward-minimum. I’d start with Cycle = 1, not 16.

It then is easier to explain how multiple Steps can be used and implemented.
And, besides, 16 Steps doing the exact same thing really sounds not to different from the 1 Step, looping.

I would typically use the Super Knob Auto MSeq function (if makes it easy to show visually how the values change). The (default) one sawtooth-up Pulse will move the Super Knob from minimum toward a higher setting. I can illustrate ‘how far’ the Sequence will move the parameter value by experimenting with the “Amplitude” setting. I can illustrate how “Uni” and “Bi” work.

In general, if you start your experiments with one Cycle, you may, or may not, even consider the HOLD 0, or a HOLD 64, or a HOLD 127, as how it should default. Again, your initial approach in discovery taints your thinking about how it might work… but *never* count out or say you don’t see ANY value in a particular thing… rather I don’t *yet* see how it might be useful. (It just sounds more open to accepting the fact that there truly is no one-way to approach things musical.)

I’m not saying approaching learning it one way or the other is better or worse, just that different approaches will certainly lead to different conclusions about how it works and what/how Yamaha should have defaulted a parameter or function.

Hope that helps.

It’s not never ask why, it’s don’t expect an answer that will satisfy you.

My 'WHY' questions are predicated on the assumption that if I knew the reason they did that it might help me understand the architecture/flow better.

So for this comment that I made

I, for one, don't see ANY value in having a default of those ramps they are using. I see a lot of value if HOLD0 to not have an effect as you build out your sequences and lanes.

The WHY comes from the conflict I have between:

1. Yamaha must have decided to predefine all 8 sequences with a short ramp and a cycle 16 for a reason
2. I can't think of ANY reason that makes sense
3. I CAN think of reasons why using HOLD0 makes sense for sequences 2-8.

In other words, my first assumption is that I'm missing a key piece of information: the purpose of defaulting to 8 predefined sequences rather than 1 predefined sequence or rather than 0 predefined sequences.

Defaulting something to 0 is always risky — you run the risk of the feature never being discovered.

I'm not sure I agree with that. That means that any ON/OFF switch that defaults to OFF would manifest a similar risk.

Certainly I agree that if a feature isn't used by default a user may never know it exists.

But I, for one, prefer that to having sequences 2-8 automatically some default when the only sequence I programmed/planned was #1.

It isn't explained anywhere that I can find that if ANY part uses SEQUENCE SELECT 2-8 then the user must revisit the other parts and make sure sequences 2-8 make sense for each part even though the user has no intention/need to use sequences 2-8 for the other parts.

Yes - my opinion - but that seems backwards to me. It means if I copy in preset parts that are configured to use sequences from 2-8 I have to be sure to modify my existing parts to add appropriate sequences.

Because if I don't do that a predefined sequence already exists that will be executed anyway.

I suggest that this 'anomaly' be documented if future (e.g. October?) instruments implement this the same way it is implemented now.

But in teaching Motion Sequence (step-by-step) in explaining Cycle steps, I would start with Cycle = 1.

ROFL!

Have to laugh - because that suggests to me that perhaps the default should be Cycle = 1 for sequence 1 and HOLD0 for the other 7.

Thanks for the comments. Anything that sheds some light on things is always a help.

I think the answer for you is keep working with it and eventually you’ll answer all of your own points — and if you never think of a way to use a feature, then simply leave it for others…

Highly recommend: Make your own Motion Sequence default templates… you can keep 256 of them in your User Bank (that means 256 per Library)

Don’t like the way it defaults, can’t figure out how any one could possibly use this, etc., can remedied by making your own User Motion Sequence. You can recall it whenever you need it and build from it.

“Have to laugh - because that suggests to me that perhaps the default should be Cycle = 1 for sequence 1 and HOLD0 for the other 7.” — really!?!

Did you know: You can use the Sliders to adjust the Amplitude of each Cycle Step - makes it easy to adjust multiple Steps

Highly recommend: Make your own Motion Sequence default templates

Yep - that IS what I do. And, as mentioned above, I have my own INIT defaults that have some of the 'oddities' cleaned out.

Did you know: You can use the Sliders to adjust the Amplitude of each Cycle Step - makes it easy to adjust multiple Steps

Yep - It mentions that on p 93 of the reference doc.

Motion Seq Step Value (Lane Motion Sequencer Step Value)
Determines the Step Value for the Motion Sequence. You can control the Step Value 1–4, 5–8, 9–12 or 13–
16 by the Control Sliders 1–4 (5–8 / 9–12 / 13–16) depending on the cursor position on the display.

What it doesn't mention is that you don't need to depend 'on the cursor position on the display' to change the step.

The ELEMENT/OPERATOR button on the front panel will switch between groups of 4 steps. The 4 step group will have a white box around it.

That button, by itself, will switch between the 1st 4 steps (1-4) or the 2nd set of 4 steps (steps 5-8).

But I found that if you hold the SHIFT button down when you press the ELEMENT/OPERATOR button then it will switch betweenthe the 3rd set of 4 steps (9-12) and the 4th set of 4 steps (13-16).

Then, for each set of 4 steps slider 1 will adjust the 1st step value in the set of 4, slider 2 the 2nd, and so on.

P 94 says this:

Motion Seq Step Type (Lane Motion Sequencer Step Type)
Determines each Step Type of the Motion Sequence. You can switch between the Step Types A and B for
the Step 1–8 or 9–16 by the SCENE [1/5]–[4/8] buttons depending on the cursor position on the display.
Settings: A, B

But my tests show that the SCENE 5-8 button doesn't do anything so you have to rely on 'the cursor position on the display'.

CAVEAT: using the SCENE button to switch to Type B will light up the associated SCENE button and it will stay lit as long as you are on the Motion Seq -> Lane screen. When you exit the Lane screen the SCENE light will change to whatever scene the performance itself was set to.

If you return to the Motion Seq -> Lane screen then SCENE 2 light will be lit again just as you left it.