Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Losing Pattern "Link" after MODX Power Cycled

6 Posts
3 Users
0 Reactions
469 Views
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Initially... just wondering if I am doing something wrong, or missing a step.

The Scenario...

I created a multi-part performance. I created a 4 Bar Loop, 3 Track Pattern as a "Backing Track".... Pad, Bass, Bass Sub. I have drum part on a basic ARP.

I renamed the Pattern to something meaningful (BB_STB), I have used the Pattern soft button "Save Perf & Settings". I have stored the Performance, with a new name. The link is blue, the Pattern will "play".

Everything is normal.

I turn off the MODX and go to bed.

Next time I switch on the MODX, select this Performance, the link is grey/broken and the Pattern name says "New Pattern 07".

Why is this happening?

Bonus Question:- With correct Pattern loaded and linked, from Rec/Play screen, when I first press "Play" the first 1 or 2 beats are silent, or maybe a better description, sound like a messy fade-in. After the Pattern loops around it sounds fine. Why the weird start?

Thanks in anticipation.

 
Posted : 11/03/2022 10:41 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Initially... just wondering if I am doing something wrong, or missing a step.

The Scenario...

I created a multi-part performance. I created a 4 Bar Loop, 3 Track Pattern as a "Backing Track".... Pad, Bass, Bass Sub. I have drum part on a basic ARP.

I renamed the Pattern to something meaningful (BB_STB), I have used the Pattern soft button "Save Perf & Settings". I have stored the Performance, with a new name. The link is blue, the Pattern will "play".

Everything is normal.

I turn off the MODX and go to bed.

Next time I switch on the MODX, select this Performance, the link is grey/broken and the Pattern name says "New Pattern 07".

Why is this happening?

This is happening because it is the Pattern Sequence that recalls the Performance - not the other way round. This is traditional... it is the MIDI Data of the Sequencer that 'remembers' what MIDI notes you played, and it also remembers what instruments you used to play them.

The Performance is like your musicians, it is your band.
The Pattern Sequence is your musical recording - where the notes get recorded, it is also where the Performance, the instruments you used to record the data, is stored.

When a Pattern Sequence is recalled, the data concerning the program you used is contained in the Pattern 'header' -- This is a set of information that remembers the Performance used, the Tempo that was set at the time of recording, the Time Signature, and other details about what was used to create this data. This in addition to the NOTES you played.

Power on your instruments.
From the HOME screen tap the "Play/Rec" > "Pattern"
The cursor highlights the Pattern Name box... which can contain 128 Patterns, 001-128
Use the Data Dial to recall your Pattern Sequence - the linked Performance will automatically be recalled.

Example to help your thinking about which recalls which... say you do a series of recording with a Piano, Bass and Drum (You name the Performance "Jazz Trio").
This "Jazz Trio" might have a couple of dozen compositions in their repertoire. As you recall each Sequence, by title, it will go and get the "Jazz Trio" Performance. The same Performance can do hundreds of compositions - much like your band can do hundreds of titles.

The Program Change info (that retrieve the sounds) are stored with the MIDI Data in the sequence header... so that when the Sequence is recalled, it sends a message to go get the Sounds.

Bonus Question:- With correct Pattern loaded and linked, from Rec/Play screen, when I first press "Play" the first 1 or 2 beats are silent, or maybe a better description, sound like a messy fade-in. After the Pattern loops around it sounds fine. Why the weird start?

It is extremely important when recording data to the PATTERN Sequencer that you record "between the lines". The 'lines" are set by your LENGTH setting at the time you RECORD>

That means you cannot record any data before the Sequencer finishes the count-in. The Count-in defaults to 1 Measure (however you can set this to your own preference). The Count-in take place BEFORE recording can begin. Do not press any keys, or engage any Controllers before Measure 001, Beat 1, Clock 000 has been reached. Do not step on the Sustain Pedal before this Measure 1, Beat 1, Clock 000 has been reached. Do not raise the MOD WHEEL; Only data that occurs after the flashing RED RECORD button goes steady RED is documented in you Pattern data.

The MIDI messages must be recorded "between the lines" ... meaning after this Measure 1 point, and all notes should end when you reach your LENGTH setting. Neatness counts. Holding a chord over that last measure line can be trouble.

If you wish to listen to your Pattern data's first measure as documented... I suggest the following quick test (which you can discard easily enough).
From the Pattern Sequence screen, recall your PATTERN which will recall your Performance...
Tap the "Edit/Job" box > select "Chain"
Set the CHAIN = ON
You will be asked to STORE your data, confirm this.
You will be given a blank CHAIN listing...
Put your very first SCENE on the first line, by touching the "+" on the top line
...in other words, make a one SCENE chain containing just your first SCENE at measure 1
Play this back on the Chain screen... The measure counter is on the bottom right of the screen.
Play and listen to how your first measure begins...
Because we only put one SCENE in the CHAIN, it will play once and stop.

You may discover that what you thought was on the downbeat of Measure 1 is actually, at the end of the last measure of your SCENE's data just before the last clock tick. Or you did not start recording in measure 001. Thus the start (at 001:1:000) is vacant but the chord happens in the last beat of the last measure, just before it loops back to the top. This is why it plays normally on subsequent loops - but the beginning is actually missing.

Perhaps you thought it was a two measure count-in and did not play at all in that first bar...

If you are having trouble landing on Measure 1, Beat 1, Clock 000 with your first chord or hit after the COUNT-IN, you can use the KEY ON START function instead. It will guarantee that your first chord, or hit, will land in the Sequence on the very first clock tick.

Turn CHAIN OFF, again you will be asked to STORE your data, do so.
That should help you understand what is happening.

Let us know.

 
Posted : 11/03/2022 11:20 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

@BM... thanks again for your reply.

I am still trying to get my head around this.

In my scenario, I create a Performance and store it with name "SynthPop V1". It is a rough version, so hence the Version 1 in the name.

I fully expect there will be Version 2, 3 etc as I progress the build, tweak and swap sounds.

The V1 has all the rudiments... a Pad, a Lead, a Bass and an Electro Drum part.

With these first choices, I record a Pattern, which I call it "SynthPop". At this time, my understanding is that the Pattern is recording only Key Presses (MIDI Event, Key On) per Part (each Part records a separate Track).

The Pattern is good enough, it is a "Sounding Board" against which I can make adjustments while hearing all Parts played together.

I change the Pad Part for one that is a little more mellow. I store as a New Performance SynthPop V2.

I add a second "Sub" Bass as a new 5th Part, and I record (overdub) a 5th Track to the same Pattern. I Store Perf & Settings.

I adjust some effects, filters, mixing. I swap out the original Bass Part (was FM-X, now its AWM2 Bass Morph). I play evetything through, seems better, I Store the Performance as "Version 3".

Satisfied, I switch off the MODX.

Next day, switch on MODX, load Performance "SynthPop V3".

Following BM's advice. I go to Pattern, load "SynthPop". and it loads the Performance "SynthPop V2". I had never visually noticed this before, and I can see, It has "undone" all the changes I made in V3.

A Big Penny drops. Last few months I thought I had been going senile (muttering to myself "I could have swore I loaded V3?").

Question is, why can I not get Pattern "SynthPop" to Play Performance Synth Pop V3?

I thought it was just a "scratch pad" MIDI file, so you didn't have to keep playing and recording all the Parts over and over again each time you make a change.

In this case, the Pattern is just the "Rhythm".... Its going to be the same each time... V3, V4, V5.

Frustrated.

 
Posted : 12/03/2022 10:50 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

We explained why this is happening to you - the reason it keeps happening to you is because you have not accepted the fact that you were incorrect in thinking the Performance recalls the Pattern. It IS, in fact, the other way 'round: It is the Pattern that recalls the Performance.
__ Performances are stored and kept in the [UTILITY] > "Contents" > "Data Utility" > Performance Folder
__ Pattern Sequences are written directly into the [UTILITY] > "Contents" > "Data Utility" > Pattern Folder
__ Pattern & Perf (the blue link) creates a method for one of the 128 Patterns in your Pattern Folder, to recall a Performance that goes with it.

With these first choices, I record a Pattern, which I call it "SynthPop". At this time, my understanding is that the Pattern is recording only Key Presses (MIDI Event, Key On) per Part (each Part records a separate Track).

This "understanding" is also incorrect. That is NOT the only data that gets recorded.

When you press the RECORD button - the Pattern Sequencer enters what could be called Record Standby (the button Flashes Red to indicate it is active). It is then that it begins 'documenting' the data that will go into the Pattern Sequencer 'header'... a set of information that will memorize the Time Signature, the Tempo, the Record LENGTH and the current Performance that is selected. Your understanding, or rather incomplete understanding, is based on what gets documented to the individual TRACKs as MIDI events once the PLAY button is engaged to move from RECORD STANDBY to Track RECORD... where your Key Presses, Controller movements, etc., are documented. But accept this new information - there is additional information that gets document BEFORE you touch a note...

The 'header' information is recalled when you initially recall a Sequence - before you press play. There is no Bank Select and Program Change data in the Track information. You want your Performance recalled BEFORE you hit play. The header information is recalled BEFORE you hit play, when playing back a sequence. And it is recorded BEFORE you start the Record Sequencer running.

Notice that you can only enter the data that is documented in the Pattern 'header' while the Pattern is in STANDBY (not running) _ the RECORD button is flashing to indicate it is active. It's during this time that the information that includes the Performance, is documented. This is essential information to tell the Sequencer how to count (time signature), and when to cycle (loop length). This information is essential for the Pattern Sequencer to run.

Once you complete your initial recording, you can create the LINK between the header data, the track sequence data and your Performance. Once you understand these critical points and accept that this is the way it works, you will stop having issues with what data is linked together.

Your (incomplete) understanding of the Pattern/Performance link does not include the data that is memorized during Record Standby. These are important to the structure of the Pattern itself and not listed on the Tracks themselves. They determine what the Track data will be written into.

A Pattern can be linked to just one Performance at a time

Remember: it is the Pattern that recalls the Performance. Only one Performance can be recalled by that Pattern.
You have made several Performances, which you are identifying as "versions" (a very viable workflow) - they are versions of the band, not versions of the PATTERN. So given these facts, let's call them Rules:

_ Only one Performance can be recalled by a Pattern
_ Performances are stored (separately) from the Pattern data
_ The Pattern & Perf Link is stored separately from the data that it links.

If you want to change which version is going to be recalled, with an understanding of the RULEs - then your question should be:

How do I unlink a Performance from a Pattern and establish a new link with a different Performance?
This question would lead you to discover how it works...

You can keep the same Pattern Sequence data but switch which Performance it will recall by doing the following:
When you create the Performance and start recording the Pattern, after you have recorded your initial data you will see the box "Store Pattern and Perf Settings" which, as you know, creates the blue LINKed icon. That icon appears between the Pattern Name and the Performance Name (black background).
Now anytime you recall the current Pattern by Name/Number it will recall the current Performance - which is shown in the adjacent box with a black background (as long as the LINK appears)

Now say you want to switch the allegiance to your "version 2" Performance, in a normal workflow you would begin making changes to the sounds that you have selected and perhaps even the volume mix, and pan positions, etc. You must then STORE this as a New Performance.... meaning from the HOME screen you would press [STORE], select the option "Store as New Performance" and give it the name with "V2" to separate it from the original. This act is very important. Creating a Link with a Performance that does not yet have a 'home' will leave you scratching your head about what happened to your data.

Once completed, return to the HOME screen of your version 2 Performance...
Tap "Play/Rec" - this returns you to the most recently accessed Pattern.
The "V2" Performance appears in the black background indicating it is the one currently recalled
The blue LINK is broken because this is not the currently LINKed program - it recognized that this is NOT the original data. But the system now shows you the option to update "Store Pattern and Perf Settings"
Tap the box "Store Pattern and Perf Settings"
You have now linked your V2 Performance (shown to the right of the LINK) with the Pattern data (shown to the left of the LINK).

It is fairly obvious to one who has figured out that Performances are stored separately from the Pattern, and that Patterns are stored separately from the Performances, and that the Pattern plus the Performance (link) is separate. Now that you "know" this you will stop having the issue you are having - or I should say, once you have accepted that this is how it is designed to work, you will suddenly not have these issues any more.

Things to Know to work like a Pro:
Tip: The last selected Pattern Sequence will return to the screen as long as you use the "Play/Rec" box to enter the Sequencer area.
Do not use the RECORD button as that will advance to the next EMPTY Pattern.

You should return to the HOME screen when you are going to switch versions of your Performance, or if you are going to create a new Performance for this Sequence data. STORE the Performance as you normally would any Performance that you edit. Then link that new Performance with the Pattern... you get back to the Pattern Sequencer by tapping the "Play/Rec" box of your newly selected Performance. Establish the LINK between this Pattern ("SynthPop" in the Title box) and this Performance ("V2" name in the black background) by tapping the "Store Pattern and Perf Settings" box.

The line should read "Pattern 001: SynthPop" "Performance V2"
Rinse and repeat for Performance V3

If you just want to switch Performances - say you have established a LINK between the "SynthPop" Pattern Sequence and "Performance V3" but wish to hear it again with Performance V1:
Go to the HOME screen
Change the Performance to V1
Tap "Play/Rec" to return to the most recently accessed Pattern Sequence

You can now play it with Performance V1 - if you decide this is the keeper, then tap the box "Store Pattern and Perf Settings" to create the new Link.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 12/03/2022 8:00 pm
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

I put a suggestion on IdeaScale for some GUI addition that would make the Pattern loading workflow more consistent with the Performance-centric workflow of the rest of the instrument.
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/286427

 
Posted : 14/03/2022 2:52 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Sorry for late reply, been away.... but thanks BM.

I think for what I am trying to do I will also use the "Save as .mid file". So I can keep generic or non-specific copies of "key strokes" for general purpose use later with any Part position (if I decide to move Drums out of the way to Part 9 for example).

I can see now how a recorded Pattern is only useful for playing similar versions of the same Performance... so it's making sense at last.

Cheers.

 
Posted : 17/03/2022 9:36 am
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us