From what I understand of this workflow, you're best off having the computer be the Performance Picker and "master" that then notifies all the others what it has chosen on the MODX, because I don't think the MODX sends "I've loaded Performance XYZ" codes of any sort.

I could be wrong.

I do all this kind of thing manually, as I'd rather do that than fiddle with more sys admin on computers than I do for my actual workstations.

[quotePost id=117141]
Boss EQ200 (10 Band Graphic EQ
Strymon Mobius (Modulations)
Strymon Timeline (Delays)
Strymon BigSky (Reverbs)

[/quotePost]

argh..........

and

woooooooooosh.......

Go you good thing!

I would like the MODX to send a particular set of PC Messages out whenever I load in a Performance.

...

Hoping for a simple "Can it do? Yes/No" answer.

Yes, you can do this.

Look up "Program Change" in the reference manual. It's the first hit in the PDF. Use multiple Parts.

Different Parts to connect to transmit a different PC to each device. Or configure external gear to respond to the same PC and lock in. Or use something like Mainstage that does this sort of thing.

Proof of "yes" assertion:

This is the result of recalling a single Performance. I took Parts 1-8 and assigned a Program Change of 51-58 to them which the keyboard subtracts one from to spit out PC values (on the MIDI bus) of 50-57. All are Channel 1 but they could be a different channel (single) or all different channels or any arbitrary mix of channels. As a master going OUT - the keyboard is very capable.

@Bill ...

I guess I read OPs request as wanting to send out an actual PC command that would reconfigure each of the different remote devices using whatever sequence of bytes each device needed.

That would've been a list of CCs, not PC. PC is just going to recall something saved in memory - settings and all. There was no request to send a bunch of CCs to set the various parameters (of the Strymon pedals, for example). Program Change - not parameter changes.

1. where do you set the PC of 50-57?

Made up - could be anything. I'm demoing that a list of different PCs can be sent so I chose 8 different ones. The OP can choose the right PCs to fit the memory locations used for each pedal. That's not really anything I'm concerned with but had to pick something.

what are MIDI Bank MSB , MIDI Bank LSB and MIDI Page Num for? Do they need to be set?

Bank MSB and LSB weren't asked for. The Strymon pedals (all of them) use only bank MSB (CC #0) and not bank LSB. You can add bank MSB too if you want. Depending on the pedal, it's going to be either 0,1 or 0,1,2 (MIDI bus values). If you don't send bank MSB then you can still work within the 100 presets (I'm still talking Strymon) of those pedals within the bank they power up at. Boss doesn't use bank MSB/LSB at all. There's only memory 127 locations total so no need to bank switch.

Just PC was asked for - so I don't make too many judgements here. Besides, the pages I guided to have the other info for the willing. The ask was not for a book - so I assume the OP can handle the rest or would ask for more help.

BTW: the Pedals can also save any settings to the least common denominator of 100 different PC values. Boss doesn't support PC 0 (which would be 1 in the MODX setting) because this isn't a setting but uses the manual sliders (it's "MAN" mode). So the venn diagram overlap area means you have 99 PCs (zero based 1-99, or 1-based 2-100) can be used. Then setup for song #1 PC(1-based)=2 for all pedals whatever those should be. song #2 PC(1-based)=3 ... and so on. This is a lot of setup but also means you can just send one PC per song (or, more correctly, per same combination of saved effect settings). That's just one of the ways suggested. Although the ask here was not for that - and for the ask, the answer is yes using the included details.

3. will having Zone Master ON affect (as in screw up) any other performances where you don't
want to do this sending?

No

If Zone Master is on and the other Parts (in other Performances) do not have Part Zone turned on - it's the same ... for that Performance ... as if you had Zone Master off.

No Presets turn Part Zone on. This is something you do with intent to have Zone Master on or you wouldn't really do it.

The only "gotcha" that's part of the rules is that if you have your instrument setup as Single-Channel (or Hybrid) mode and then invoke zone control then this, for that Performance, would turn off (override) Single-Channel/Hybrid mode. On paper -- at least to me -- it's seems like a crazy exception-based method of implementing a feature. Once you get over that (and, I still think it could be done "better" ) - you settle in to seeing it as a feature because it does give flexibility to have any arbitrary User Performance to assume single channel (or Hybrid depending on that global setting) and multi-channel. There are times where you may want some of one and some of the other and this "override" business gives you that.

@Bill... thanks for your reply. I should have stated clearly in my OP, I do not want to involve Personal Computers, Tablets and/or external MIDI Contollers/Software. I have edited my OP.

@Jason... thanks for the pointer.

I read the Ref Manual.

If I understand correctly, you can only send 1x PC message per Part, and therefore Per Zone? And only then if that Part is "played".

What I was hoping is that, per Performance, you could define a "list" of Program Change msgs, that would be sent "Fire and Forget" on MIDI OUT once the Performance is actually loaded into the Home Screen.

The "list" would effectively be a one-off "Shopping List" of Presets on various external devices that "Suit" the Performance selected. For example:-

From Effect A - Choose Preset 5
From Effect B - Choose Preset 12
From Effect C - Choose Preset 3
From Effect D - Choose Preset 19
From Keyboard X - Choose Patch 97.

So, the various Effects would be "ready and waiting" before I've even played a Note.

Your suggestion sounds "doable", but I would have to "retrofit" each Performance with additional "dummy" Parts and/or Zones. The thought of doing that is already making me groan ... LOL.

Don't get me wrong.... I do appreciate your suggestion. 🙂

(Background "rejected" alternative:- I was looking at buying (and waiting for) a Morningstar MC8 "Mark 2". Unfortunately, confirmed by Morningstar, despite NAMM announcement, the Mark 2 is still very much just a Blueprint, global supply shortage the reason. Had the "Mark 2" been a reality, then it would have been the central "broadcaster"... "Song Selection" done on the MC8, and PC'ing all peripherals, including the MODX.
There are other Brand alternatives, but these would be ghastly expensive, hi-end pro-rig studio units. So, I was thinking outside the box... maybe the MODX could do it?).

FWIW... credit should be given to Yamaha for anticipating, and equipping the MODX/Montage with such a comprehensive and forward-looking suite of MIDI capability.

If the MODX can't do what I am asking, that is in no way a poor reflection on Yamaha. No company can predict or cater for every need, of every individual*.

Although, judging by some cyberspace comments, there are people who do actually think like that... the entitled "Karens" of this world.

Yes, you'll need to retrofit no matter if you could make a big long list in a single performance or peanut-butter spread across multiple Parts. It took me just a few minutes to start with an "Init Normal (AWM2)" Part and build, from the ground-up, the example that sends out the messages. Retrofit would take about the same time but presumably you'd have more than a single Part that I started with.

That's one option. Or go saving your presets/memory on the pedals so a single PC can be sent per song and all downstream pedals sync up on a single PC and, therefore, would use only a single Part using the same Zone settings. What I'm saying is line up

Effect A
Effect B
Effect C
Effect D
... etc

So, for each, PC (1-based) 2 is the same for each for one "collection" you'd use in a given tune (you can call it a song - but you may have two "songs" where you use the same effect settings - I don't know). And, without using Bank MSB - you get 99 slots where your advertised pedals can "line up" for a given PC. That's 99 "songs". The programming in terms of retrofit programming is done at the pedal end instead.

All in all it's about the same amount of work. Giving the option to use the effect pedal's interface or the keyboard's. Boss has a click one button for increment and another for decrement. That's a lot of button pounding. I'd think MODX has the edge for ease-of-programming and would probably go that route. Although there is the other effect pedal programming option if that seems better for whatever reason(s).

With computer assist - not during your playing, but during the programming - there may be other options other than using the GUI to program this stuff in that could be easier depending. Everything from using polished at cost solutions like Melas tools to DIY like spreadsheets of settings exported to CSV and scripts to send SysEx to set everything up semi-automated. That's not a suggestion as much as it is other "alternatives" (in the "programming" phase) that appeal to some more than others.

Also, it's worth noting that hardly anything in synthesizer programming is automatic. That goes for the whole lot. If you want to do something other than use presets verbatim - you're in for "a lot" of work. It's the nature of the role of the synth tweaker. There's the textbook stuff of just knowing the settings and menus and such. Then there's more of the craft of taking a set of rules and making them fit within a vision. Lots of times you turn into a keypunch operator (or, insert your favorite technology based repetitive task here). If the system was too "smart" - you'd lose a certain amount of flexibility.

It's generally easier to get around on a PC due to favorable input devices (keyboard, mouse, touch when you have it) than a dedicated hardware device (synthesizer) -- so that's (a part of) why say a big act like Billy Joel is going to have redundant PCs running the show. Even there it's a lot of work to get this setup. Even with an easier interface -- it's still not a walk in the park.

I guess I'm trying to downplay whatever is causing you to groan - because if this is something you want to do -- you need to get to it. The keyboard isn't going to program itself and time doesn't wait. I say this with the best of intensions because I know what analysis paralysis is first-hand.

[quotePost id=117149](Background "rejected" alternative:- I was looking at buying (and waiting for) a Morningstar MC8 "Mark 2". Unfortunately, confirmed by Morningstar, despite NAMM announcement, the Mark 2 is still very much just a Blueprint, global supply shortage the reason. Had the "Mark 2" been a reality, then it would have been the central "broadcaster"... "Song Selection" done on the MC8, and PC'ing all peripherals, including the MODX. [/quotePost]
You might want to check MOD Devices Dwarf or Duo X ( https://moddevices.com/product/mod-dwarf/ )?
You can program quite a bit of MIDI functionality in those (among a billion other things, including Analog Synths 🙂 )
https://pedalboards.moddevices.com/plugins?category=MIDI&random=9a41a1b1fa3c4d999086deb6e0e15b7b

@J said:- "The keyboard isn't going to program itself and time doesn't wait."

LOL. You are right.

@Dragos... thanks, I'll have a look.

Ok - but I didn't ask what values you chose - I ask WHERE you set them

You set them in the Part Zone menu which has options for MIDI channel, PC, MSB, LSB, Pan, and Volume. This is outlined in the reference manual.

Look up "Program Change" in the reference manual. It's the first hit in the PDF. Use multiple Parts.

That's the Program Change (PC) you would set. On the previous page is a picture of the screen (page 71 of MODX's Reference Manual rev A0). PC is something you turn on/off. Turn it on. Under this button is "Program Number". That's the PC+1. "Program Number" starts with 1 and ends with 128 by range and PC is typically shown as zero based 0-127.

EQ "Mid Hump" Patch, Bank A102
Mobius "Tri-Chorus" Patch, Bank B63
Timeline "300ms Delay" Patch Bank A11
BigSky "Arena Reverb" Patch, Bank C27
Hydrasynth "Brass Lead" Patch. Bank H17.

Unless the Mobius is always Bank B, Timeline is always Bank A, BigSky is always Bank C - then those will need to be accompanied by the Bank MSB (CC#0) also present in the same menu. I don't think EQ has an "A,B,C" deal (no Banks). Hydrasynth is different and instead of sending a bank MSB, it seems you need to send a Bank LSB (0-4) to choose its bank.

I originally had a screenshot from a different monitor that has less confusing contents (no MSB/LSB in the text). However, the readability was poor due to the app's color contrast and there wasn't a way to edit that. So I went to a different app and thought the "MSB LSB" stuff might be confusing.

MSB and LSB in the PC messages is not "Bank MSB" or "Bank LSB". These are MSB and LSB of the MIDI message itself -- which is not the same thing. It's like physical layer vs. transport layer and reusing terms for each -- so context is important.

I think it's bad labeling due to overloading of "MSB" and "LSB" -- but also realize that MIDI spec has MSB and LSB for more than just bank. Sometimes, in the spec (and not the case here) MSB stands for most significant bit. Sometimes it's for most significant byte. CC messages are spelled out that those requiring only one data byte will define this one data byte as the "MSB". For pitch bend, the LSB the first byte. So even per spec - the ordering of data bytes is not necessarily MSB first then LSB second (we're talking data bytes here - not bank anything).

And I think, honestly, the MIDI Scope software pictured chose some poor labeling in showing "MSB" and "LSB" in the output. I ignore this. There's no 0x00 byte at all. So these are mainly noise since 50-57 data byte values are redundant and already shown elsewhere.

Just ignore that stuff (msb lsb in this particular tool). Every line in the MIDI Scope output is a PC message and that's it. You can treat everything in the brackets "[lsb: ... msb: ...] " as irrelevant since the information everywhere else is complete without it.

This is what the other tool shows:

... which is better (not as confusing) -- but when I show the entire screenshot and it's smaller - the contrast makes it difficult to read for me.

@Bill & @Jason....

Two hands are better than one.

Re-reading your posts, I think I can see a solution.

Instead of ripping apart my existing Performances (I sometimes have 4 or 5 versions of the same Performance, ranging from "Basic" to "Whistles & Bells"), I can create a set of "Setup Performances" (as Bill suggested I should do in a DAW).

The SetUp Performance could be a muted 8 Part INIT, with just Zone mods that would send out "the list".

The way my FX respond to MIDI PC is just to "Change Preset", I.e. load in a pre-configured preset. Once that Preset is loaded, it won't change. I can switch the FX on/off (Bypass) with my foot... they are all on a "Pedal Board" on the Floor.

The FX Pedals can also reconfigure their Preset Parameters in Real Time, in response to MIDI CC. Example "Change Chorus Depth". This is all fine and dandy, but is more than I need for the meantime.

I usually have my FX Presets specifically configured per "Song". These Presets therefore are just on-the-shelf ready to be called for use.

As @J intimated, some Presets are fairly generic, and the same config may be used across multiple songs. However, I still tend to "copy, name & store" these generic settings on a Per Song basis.

For example, my Reverb unit probably has 10 Presets that are all identical (lets say born of "Room Reverb") except for the Preset Name and Bank/Location. I can afford to "burn" preset locations to avoid having to remember "type" per Song. Example, in the Reverb unit, you have a bunch of "plain stock" Reverbs.... Room, Hall, Club, Arena. It is actually quite difficult, per Song, to remember which Reverb is needed... especially if playing Live.

FWIW... both Strymon and Boss provide comprehensive MIDI Indexes for their units. The Strymons can get up to 2 Banks (128+72=200). The Boss, don't remember, I need to look again (there are actually 2x GEQs inside), it may be 128 per GEQ Config (A & B, or, Left & Right, or, Pre & Post)... I'd be using L&R initially.

Here is an older photo of my Pedal Board, it looks quite a bit different now I set it up for KB, not Guitar.