Thanks Jason.
But I'd need to use simoultanesly two performances, one with Modx7, pressing on it, the other by using the Kurzweil keyboard via midi. I cannot press two different performances at same time. You said press performance and then play on Kurzweil, I already can play one modx performance using Kurzweil keyboard, that's fine. I can't understand how to play two different performances from the same live set page, that is, addressing the Kurzweil as master to play a performance, for example with an organ inside (perf2), respect the one highlighted and playable in modx, for example a Rhodes (perf1), in the same live set.
Sorry if I am not so clear and boring about, many thanks.

Hi Max,
Welcome to YamahaSynth!
Your question has enough difference to the thread you attached it to… “program change via iPad…” that it could/should be a separate topic.

Please, in the future, feel free to start your own thread. We have a large number of folks who read and never post… if they are searching for info on working with a K2661 and a MODX, I doubt they will look under this thread.

No biggie, but feel free to start your own thread when you have a question. Welcome!

Sorry about! 🙁

Max, I'm not sure exatly what you're trying to do, or what's working and what's not, but I think the basics boil down to this:

... if you're trying to send Program Change from the MODX to the Kurzweil and/or trying to play the Kurzweil from the MODX keys, then connect MODX MIDI Out to Kurzweil MIDI In and use the Zone Master function of the MODX, as described at https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/zone-master-faq-mastering-montage

... if you're trying to send Program Change from the Kurzweil to the MODX and/or trying to play the MODX from the Kurzweil keys, then connect Kurzweil MIDI Out to MODX MIDI In, and while there is some variability here depending on exactly what it is you want to do, you most likely want to set the MODX MIDI I/O to Multi which will allow you to simultaneously play different combinations of MODX sounds from each keyboard. You can send individual Program Changes to each MODX Part that you're addressing from within your Kurzweil Setup so as to bring up different single-part Performances on those particular channels (the MODX Part number corresponds to the MIDI channel you need to address it on). If you want to send a Program Change that will call up a MODX multi-part Performance, I think that has to be sent on channel 1.

You can also connect both MIDI cables and do any of the above at will.

Our natural way of relating to items is the 1st item is "1" and 2nd item is "2". However, a computer uses zero based counting where the first item is "0" and the 2nd item is "1". For whatever reason, some keyboard manufacturers relay information to users in a "human readable" way thinking this somehow makes life easier...maybe there's a good reason why it's like it is - I just haven't run into it yet.

The "human readable" way does make operation of the board easier for humans, specifically those humans who are merely playing the keyboards and not getting at all involved with MIDI. It intutively makes sense to a non-computer person, that the default and "bottom numbered" patch that comes up when you turn the keyboard on is patch #1 rather than patch #0, or that a row of buttons for patch selection or numerical entry starts with a one rather than starting with a zero. To a non-computer user, this simply "makes sense" instead of being seen as something "quirky" or more complicated or as something that needs to be explained, as starting with zero would be. But as soon as you convert to MIDI, you have to make the conversion somewhere along the line. In the old days, boards didn't have more than 128 patches. Some boards numbered them 1-128 because it made sense to humans. Some boards numbered them 0 to 127 which seemed less friendly, but made sense to MIDI programmers. It's arguably less baffling to a programmer to have to tell them that they have to turn 1-128 into 0-127 than it is to tell a non-programmer that their first locations should be called zero and not one. 😉

It's my opinion that the interface should present information so no conversion is necessary.

Montage/MODX basically works that way... in that the standard user interface presented to the user displays no patch numbers at all! Nor can you call patches up by number. So that's one way to largely avoid the problem!

But I'd need to use simoultanesly two performances, one with Modx7, pressing on it, the other by using the Kurzweil keyboard via midi. I cannot press two different performances at same time.

My description would have had you press/select only one place - on your MODX. Your MODX would, automatically and according to your programmed settings, send a message to the Kurzweil automatically and your Kurzweil would respond by changing its patch.

You could do it the other way too (have Kurzweil control MODX - and INSTEAD of pressing anything on MODX to make the change - instead press somewhere on your Kurzweil to tell both keyboards to change to your desired pair of "patches" ). I'm not as versed with Kurzweil so I didn't offer any specifics for that option.

The method of most keyboard switching sound is through PC (Program Change) and possibly adding to that MSB and LSB messages. These are MIDI messages and the "Part Zone" screen I referenced is the place where you would setup Kurzweil's required PC+MSB+LSB to address a particular patch.

Further detail for setting up your Kurzweil for control by MODX:

K2661 Program Change Type ("ProgChgType" in your K2661 MIDIMode:RECEIVE setup menu) - Change to "Extended"
K2661 Bank Select ("BankSelect" in your MIDIMode:RECEIVE setup menu) - Change to "0 only"

This tells your K2661 to use "MSB" as the method of changing banks (valid values = 0-9) and use PC for selecting which memory bank to recall (valid values=0-99).

To recall your K2661's object #345, for example, you would end MSB=3 and PC=45. To recall K2661's object #45, you would send MSB=0 and PC=45.

Basically, whatever you are trying to recall the last 2 digits come from PC and the 1st digit comes from the MSB. If the object you are trying to recall is less than 100, use an MSB of 0.

I say "object" because this is how the Kurzweil manual refers to these 1,000 (0-999) memory locations available. It seems there are different types of things you can recall so they generically refer to each memory location as holding an "object". If you're in program mode - then the objects selected would be programs. Allowing for selection of programs 0-999.

On MODX - you don't have to worry about the value of LSB. You can set the value of LSB to anything you want. 0 or the same as MSB. It is ignored by the K2661 when setup as above. With "only" 1,000 possible programs to recall - there is not a need to use 3 values. 2 (PC+MSB) is sufficient.

Thanks AnotherScott.
My purpose is playing some Modx7 performances using Kurzweil keyboard.
So I correctly connected midi OUT from Kurzweil to midi IN of Modx, and it works fine. Midi is setup to multi and I also set default midi OUT on Kurzweil side to #1.
So if I need to play a performance that has part #3 for example, it means that I must use channel out #3 from Kurzweil and yes, I can easily set it on Kurzweil setup, no problem.
But the problem is that it works only on that part of the performance actually selected in my live set and it's not possible to play the part #3 of another performance if it's not selected. So, my purpose to play a performance directly on Modx7 and another performance by Kurzweil at same time seems not applicable (but I think from ANY midi controller).
The result is that I cannot address that performance because of this midi part constraint.
I have looked the properties of that performance and I have:
MSB 64
LSB 32
PC 071
just to give more stuff to be helped.
I understood the zeroed PC constraint, but it seems not to be the problem I have.
I hope to be wrong but I can't find a solution.
Thank you all for your great patience.

Thanks AnotherScott.
My purpose is playing some Modx7 performances using Kurzweil keyboard.
So I correctly connected midi OUT from Kurzweil to midi IN of Modx, and it works fine. Midi is setup to multi and I also set default midi OUT on Kurzweil side to #1.
So if I need to play a performance that has part #3 for example, it means that I must use channel out #3 from Kurzweil and yes, I can easily set it on Kurzweil setup, no problem.
But the problem is that it works only on that part of the performance actually selected in my live set and it's not possible to play the part #3 of another performance if it's not selected. So, my purpose to play a performance directly on Modx7 and another performance by Kurzweil at same time seems not applicable (but I think from ANY midi controller).
The result is that I cannot address that performance because of this midi part constraint.

A MODX Performance is a set of up to 16 sounds (Parts). The MODX cannot play more than 16 parts at a time, and similarly, it cannot load or play more than one such set of sounds at a time. This is not a "midi part constraint" on the part of the MODX. All multi-timbral boards work that way. If you reversed the roles of your two boards, you could load a 16-part Kurzweil Setup into your Kurzweil, and you could play one or more parts of that Setup from your MODX, but you could not play a part from some other Setup. Both boards are capable of loading only one 16-part sound set at a time. They can't load a particular 16-part sound set for their internal keys, and then some additional sounds to be triggered by an external board. (And same with Kronos, Fantom, etc.).

So... If you have a particular Performance loaded into the MODX, and you want the Kurzweil to play the sound that happens to reside in Part #3 of some other MODX Performance, all you have to do is copy Part #3 from that second Performance into some unused location of the first Performance. This is no problem unless you actually need to play more than 16 Parts in total. You can, for example, copy Part 3 from that second performance into Part 16 of the first Performance, and then just have that Kurz setup trigger than sound via channel 16 instead of channel 3.

Or am I completely misunderstanding what it is you're trying to do?

Ok Scott,
The last section you describe is exactly what I already did. And I agree that it works.
But copying a part of a performance into another already existent, sounds very bad. I mean, I have a starting performance with Rhodes in part #1 and then I copy an organ performance to part #16. I instruct the Kurzweil to use channel 16 and it works. But in this way I miss all the effects of the original organ performance because by default this multi performance uses the effects of Rhodes. This makes the organ sound horrible, compared to its own performance. I can tweak the single organ part #16 on page effects to reduce the Rhodes effect and improve the sound, but there is no way to have the original organ effects together to the Rhodes effects. It's just another organ sound, much worst. This of course is the same behaviour for all orher sounds combined in this way. I am focused now on organs but I tried others also, same result more or less.
This is the only reason why I thought to use different performances at the same time.
Any idea about?
Thanks again!

Each Part has its own pair of dedicated insert effects, for up to 12 Parts at a time. The organ should sound the same when you move it into the Performance with your Rhodes as it did when it was Part 3 of some other performance, provided that you're not exceeding 12 Parts. If you have more Parts than that, then you would need to disable the effects on the Parts where they are less crucial, so that you have the insert effects enabled on only the 12 most effect-dependent Parts. (This is one of the limits that increases on the Montage.) One other possibility is that there can also be Master/System effects and EQ that may be applied to the sounds as they exist in a particular multi-sound combination, which could disappear if a Part is copied into a different multi-sound performance with different "global" settings of this type. But yes, you will have to consider how effects will change as you move sounds among different Performances, especially if your Performances have more than 12 Parts. There's no way around that. You just have to look at these Performances you create (where you want them to include sound to be triggered by each of your boards) and consider, do you really need them to have more than 12 Parts? And if you do, can you afford to lose the effects on some of the Parts? But you can pick and choose which ones.

And again, other boards are the same. On virtually every multi-timbral board, you have a limit of no more than 16 available sounds at a time, and you have some fixed number of total effects. Different brands implement the trade-offs differently. Roland FA, Fantom, and Integra let you put effects on all 16 Parts simultaneously... but in most cases, limit you to one insert effect per sound (compared to two per sound on the MODX). At the other extreme, Kurzweil lets you put all its effects resources on just a single sound if you want to... but if you do that, you'll no longer have any effects available for a second sound. Each approach has its limitations and benefits, and can involve some strategizing.

I just have two parts, one is the starting performance with Rhodes on part #1, the other is organ (8.8.8.8... something) in part #16. It is not copied from another multi performance, it is just copied from its own performance and it is made by just one part. But two parts only, at least these kind of parts, makes the organ sound horrible. I will try to find another Rhodes as starting to see if I have better result, or swap the starting performance to organ first and then adding a Rhodes, tweaking EQ and other settings, like you suggested, to adjust what is adjustable...
Thanks for your great help.

Just FYI: There is a limitation you maybe running into. On the MODX only 12 of the 16 Part slots can have their Dual Insertion Effect blocks active, simultaneously. I’ll have to check, but most likely they are set to be active initially on the first twelve Parts, 1-12. (Seems logical to do 1-12)

You can only have 12 Parts with their Insertion Effects simultaneously. If the organ sounds very different from it does in its HOME location, you may want to ensure that the item in Part 16 has its 2 insertion effects active.

FYI. You do not have to use slot number 16, you can transmit OUT to the external synth from any slot, using any MIDI Channel.

If you give us the (exact) names of the sounds, perhaps we can be more helpful…

Just FYI: There is a limitation you maybe running into. On the MODX only 12 of the 16 Part slots can have their Dual Insertion Effect blocks active, simultaneously. I’ll have to check, but most likely they are set to be active initially on the first twelve Parts, 1-12. (Seems logical to do 1-12)

You can only have 12 Parts with their Insertion Effects simultaneously. If the organ sounds very different from it does in its HOME location, you may want to ensure that the item in Part 16 has its 2 insertion effects active.

FYI. You do not have to use slot number 16, you can transmit OUT to the external synth from any slot, using any MIDI Channel.

If you give us the (exact) names of the sounds, perhaps we can be more helpful…

Hi Mister.
Yes, the insertion A and B are active.
I'm now trying to swap the main sound with organ and things about organ are ok of course. But the other sound, in my case a Rhodes, has the same issue; anyway it's ok for my purpose, just tweaking a bit the EQ and it sounds accettable.
Also, try with same organ as starting performance and add the "CFX Stage" piano: this sounds awful.
About original organ problem, if you would like to experiment, try to edit performance "Singleline 2" and insert organ "8.8.8.8.6.2.2.0.0 2", as part 3 or where you prefer, and try to hear the difference. In the original performance there is a distortion in the main effect page that has been lost here. But also the sound is dark, too many mid frequencies maybe, it's so different...

I use part 16 just as mnemonics, but I tried the other free slots also, no difference.
Thanks a lot!