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Reset Common Cutoff with Scene

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 fred
Posts: 53
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

I would like to reset the Common Cutoff after I've changed it by switching scenes. Is this possible?

I have a Performance where scene two increases the volume on a couple parts and then when playing it I turn the cutoff knob to make it sweep. But afterwards I want to switch to scene one and have it go back to it's initial position. I don't see how to do this.

Thanks,
Fred

 
Posted : 23/11/2022 7:03 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

[quotePost id=119462]I would like to reset the Common Cutoff after I've changed it by switching scenes. Is this possible?

I have a Performance where scene two increases the volume on a couple parts and then when playing it I turn the cutoff knob to make it sweep. But afterwards I want to switch to scene one and have it go back to it's initial position. I don't see how to do this.

Thanks,
Fred
[/quotePost]The items that can be memorized in a SCENE can easily be reviewed.
From the [PERFORMANCE (HOME)] screen
Tap “Scene” in the first column
Here you can review and change the Scene Memory status for all parameters that can be captured and recalled by this function.

The Quick Edit COMMON “Cutoff” function while it can be applied overall to the Performance, it is not among the parameters that are memorized by the Scene Memory ‘snapshots’.

This does not mean you can’t accomplish the overall goal.

The Super Knob position *is* a parameter that can be memorized by a Scene.
If you apply a Filter (for example, the “VCM Mini Filter”) to the entire Performance as the Master FX (all Parts travel through the “Master FX” before going to the “Master EQ” and finally the “Main L/R Output”)... then you will be able to accomplish this… because the Super Knob position can be memorized.

Once assigned as the Master FX you can assign the Super Knob to control the Filter Cutoff of the “VCM Mini Filter”
From the HOME screen drop into EDIT on the upper Common/Audio level of the architecture.
Tap “Effect” > “Master FX”
Activate the ON switch
Select the “VCM Mini Filter” as Master Fx, highlighting the “Cutoff” parameter
Press the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button which will glow because it is an assignable parameter.

Assign the Cutoff to the Super Knob by turning the Super Knob — you will be taken to the Control Assign screen…
You’ll want “Curve Type” = Standard
“Polarity” = Bi (Bi directional will allow the current setting to be recalled and moved in either direction (open or closed). Hint: Set the Cutoff value to how you wish it to default, initially.
“Ratio” increase until you get the minimum and maximum that works for you
“Param1” to taste 5 is balanced

Now the system will seek to find an available Common Assign Knob (which is typically linked to the Super Knob; meaning it will follow its instructions — which means you can manipulate the Filter Cutoff for all Parts of the Performance either with the Knob itself or an FC7 set to Super Knob… and the act of recalling a Scene will zero out the VCM Mini Filter’s Cutoff, if that is your desire.

The “Super Knob” Memory switches need to be activated on the Scene Memory screen… for each Scene you wish to recall a value.
Recall Scene 1
Set the Super Knob value appropriately
Recall Scene 2
Set the Super Knob value appropriately
In this example, straight up at 12 o’clock position (64) will be the default setting… ie, equal to the the normal Cutoff setting. How much change there is will be determined by the “Ratio” setting within the Control Assignment.

 
Posted : 23/11/2022 9:03 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

1. Are you saying that OP should now sweep ONLY the new system filter and NOT common or part level?

That is exactly what I’m saying about the “Filter Cutoff” — instead of trying to memorize a Common Cutoff offset value (which is not possible) apply an entirely different Filter to the entire Performance.
__ I mention nothing about Part Levels — which are easily memorized and restored by each Scene. So adjusting Part Levels is a ‘snap’ to restore if you change them… just recall the Scene.

Since the Common Cutoff function (which affects all Parts and their Filters via applying an offset) is NOT a parameter that can be captured and restored by the Scene Memory, the suggestion is to apply an actual Filter to the entire Performance as the Master FX.
__ I thought that part was clear. You can manipulate it in real-time with the Super Knob, and quickly restore it to a normal state by recalling a [SCENE].

2. How do you choose a filter that will work properly with the filters below which are now being swept? What considerations need to be taken into account?

Since it is not working “with the filters”, the VCM Mini Filter is a boutique quality Effect that can be applied to the entire Performance… INSTEAD of…
Recommend: try it! Set “Cutoff” = 100 and assign it to the Super Knob system.

3. Modifying the system filter cutoff doesn't really change/offset the cutoff values for the part level filters like the common cutoff value does does it?

What “system filter cutoff”? If you are talking about the Master FX set to “VCM Mini Filter”, that’s the point of the whole suggestion - use a separate Filter.

Use a separate Filter to adjust the timbre of the entire Performance. As a Master FX you can be sure it will affect all Parts of the Performance. Not via offset, but actually filter the sound of all Parts.

If you actually try it, You will be adjusting the SuperKnob/FC7 in order to close down the filter, you will be using the [SCENE] buttons to reset the timbre to its original status… because the Scene Memory will memorize Super Knob position!
I think it will become clear (a case where applying a new Filter will clear things up).

 
Posted : 24/11/2022 12:01 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

When performing live, whether you apply a change in Cutoff by ‘offsetting’ all the individual Filters or you apply the Filter Cutoff change to the entire Performance via the Master FX, for the most part, will not matter. The result will be very much the same.

Like creating a fade-out by turning down all 16 Parts simultaneously by assigning control to each of the 16 Part Volumes, or by creating that fade out by turning down the Master Volume elsewhere (Master Fx)… the result will be for all intents, the same.

It is possible to go into each Part and assign one of its eight Assign Knobs to Volume (Part Volume) then you could link each of them to a single Common Assign Knob… you now have a “Fade Out” Knob.
But in one sixteenth the time, and much less programming effort, you could assign a Master FX — one with assignable Output Level — to the whole Performance. One assignment to fade out all Parts because all “Main L/R” Parts must go through the Master Effect… you can accomplish the result much easier (I’ve used the “Isolator” as Master FX to accomplish this).

There are usually more than one way to approach solving an issue… it’s a synthesizer!

Extra Credit:
https://yamahasynth.com/forum/controlling-the-volume-of-all-16-parts-with-fc7#reply-92696

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 9:53 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Of course you cannot "unfilter" a sound - but if your goal is to do what has been requested then you simply wouldn't "shoot yourself in the foot" by closing down the filters at the Part level. You would leave them open there and then leverage the more global "filter" found in a master effect. The result is the same assuming all Parts have filters that would otherwise darken/brighten the sound if you turned the common cutoff knob. If this is true then you could filter the master out instead of individually telling each Part to filter itself. You loose a certain amount of granularity of course - but painting with a broad brush you can basically get to the same destination.

I took the preset "Cool Madness" and noticed that the common assignable knob #8 wasn't used for anything (yet was still linked to superknob). Therefore, I unlinked Assignable Knob #8 from Super Knob. Also in the common/audio section, I changed the master effect from the VCM compressor to the VCM Mini Filter. Then I edited the VCM Mini Filter's master FX parameters, selected "Cutoff", and pressed [CONTROL ASSIGN] (which lit up when cutoff was selected). Then I turned the assignable knob #8. This assigned this knob to the cutoff. I changed the curve to bipolar polarity and set the ratio in the direction and amount such that all the way counter-clockwise was dull and all the way clockwise was bright. This matches the behavior of the common cutoff knob. Finally, I went to the common cutoff knob and turned it full clockwise so it wasn't choking the sound.

Now Assign Knob #8 is an assignable knob that can control cutoff which operates much like common cutoff did. I could also link Assign Knob #8 to the Super Knob and unlink all of the other assignable knobs so that I could use superknob to control cutoff. Then it wouldn't matter if I had a Part selected. Also, it would be available for external CC control using the Super Knob's CC.

... and to tie this back to the original ask - this would be perfect for having scenes control Super Knob's position which could "reset" cutoff to any position by using Super Knob memory and setting the scene to a particular SK value or turning off SK memory for any scenes where you want leave cutoff alone.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 11:58 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

I can't speak for Phineas Fred. I assume what he's trying to do is Filter the whole Performance "Down" and then bring it back in an instant (Reset with a Scene button).

Filtering Down a "Track" is a fairly common technique in EDM used by Producers (Studio) and DJ'S (Live). We've all heard it, the closed Filter gives an impression of hearing the Music from Outside of the Club/Venue. As the Filter is turned up it gives a sense of walking into the Club, to the point we are "there" in the audience. It gives a massive sense of "Arrival".

In this instance, if the Only need for a Filter is that technique, then you could set filter type on all AWM2 Elements or FM Parts to "Through" (No Filter).

Filters can also be used as a "Quick EQ", but are a little clumsy compared to a dedicated EQ.

In the above, BMs advice on using Master FX VCM Mini Filter is solid.

The "but what if...." hypothesis, suggests a fundamentally different "need" and requires a different solution.

Therefore, if you had multiple Parts or Elements, that need to be Filtered and Modulated individually and uniquely from a Global perspective (Example from the Super Knob), then you would need to design and create an Appropriate Set of Control Assigns.

To be clear, this will take time to do... there is no "magic button". However, the Assign Controls you create, can still be governed by Scene buttons via the Super Knob as BM initially pointed out.

 
Posted : 26/11/2022 2:15 am
Posts: 1715
Noble Member
 

@Bill sidenote: was kind of somewhat drafting an answer to your deleted question about filters, the first question that started out wondering how to think/conceive of using them within the greater realm of the thought lines.

It is possible to think about filters and their usages very analytically, from the get go, and how they open up and close down spaces for sound across the spectrum, especially with regards arrangements of instruments with some overlap in the frequencies, timbres and tonalities they focus on/around, and the dynamic evolvement of the play you want to hear.

Perhaps I think about this more than most as I love arpeggios and electronic music genres, which spend a lot of time evolving and moving filtering around, both dynamically and programmatically, and have strong overlaps (eg bass lines often "compete" with the kick's frequency space, and deeper leads and rhythm parts compete with the upper echelons of the bass, whilst fx-sounds might overlap significantly with a lead's frequency range).

With more traditional music, and more traditional instruments, there's less need for filtering as there's much more formally created separation in their timbres, tonality, timing and spectrums, as centuries of evolvement structured those instruments so that they'd work together well. With natural instrument simulations, filtering overtly often sounds and feels out of place and odd.

So it's best to think of it in terms of how it's needed to make evolvements and dynamics within electronic music genres, which is where it's easiest to get the biggest gains from using filters well, too.

 
Posted : 26/11/2022 3:19 am
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