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Some organ patches are silent or very quiet

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Hi everyone!

It's beeing a while since I'm wondering how to solve this problem, so I ask you guys. 😀
Some Organ patches appears to be silent or really quiet, and I didn't find any workaround to handle this so far.....

Steps to reproduce, on my keyboard:

  1. Browse category and select Performance "Bowed Bars CV": you should hear sounds by playing keys
  2. Now, select a blank performance (Init -> Init Normal (AWM2)). Mute the 1st part.
  3. Click on the "+" button on part 2 in order to choose a performance to insert there.
  4. Select the same performance "Bowed Bars CV". If you play your keyboard you won't hear ANY sound (even if in the mixer it shows audio signal coming out from that part)

    First, I'd really curious on seeing if anyone else has faced this issue before.
    Then, I ask you all which do you think it could be the reason, and how could I do to fix it.

    Thanks.
    Rob

     
Posted : 23/03/2023 6:25 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

I ask you all which do you think it could be the reason, and how could I do to fix it

When you did the INIT you loaded a NEW performance. So the performance level settings of 'Bowed Bars CV' were lost since they belong to that performance. Those 'lost' settings' include the system effects as well as super knob and common control assignments.

If you check the effects of the 'Bowed Bars CV' you will see that they are NOT loaded when you add those parts to the INIT performance.

The easiest way to 'fix' it is to load the 'Bowed Bars CV' performance first. Then the load will include ALL of that performances upper-level settings.

Then add the additional parts you want to add.

 
Posted : 23/03/2023 7:48 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

To solve your issue, (and understand the cause) please recall the Factory Performance “Bowed Bars CV". When you study the programming in this Performance the issue becomes clear. Here is what is happening:

The Variation Effect is called this because you can set it up to work as either a SYSTEM EFFECT (each Part has a Send amount, much like Aux Sends on a mixing console) or by eliminating the “Dry Level” it can, for intents and purposes, act as a third Insertion Effect.

The “Dry Level” is the original instrument signal, without the effects.

INSERTION EFFECTs, are considered part of the instrument, and are set so that all signal from the Waveform/Oscillators will travel through them.

By changing the Routing you can use the Variation processor like an additional Insertion Effect… instead of aux send type routing, you will be sending the entire instruments signal through it.

From the HOME screen:
Touch “Mixing”
Here you see the two Parts that make up this Tone Wheel Organ sound… Observe that both Part’s channels are set as follows:
Reverb = 0
Variation = 127
Dry Level = 0

The entire signal is being routed to the current Variation (a Distortion: “Small Stereo”)
(Important note: In normal routing/programming the Dry Level is typically set to 127).

Instead of using each Part’s Rev Send and Var Send as usual, the programmer of this organ is using two Rotary Speaker Effects (one in InsA, the other InsB). Insertion Effects belong to the instrument (Part) — like setting up two Leslies … and then sets up the Var processor as the third ‘insert effect’.

So once the signal emerges from the Insertion Effect block, it is routed to the Variation Effect. You can see the “Var to Rev” is set to 10… this sends a small amount of signal to the Reverb chamber (in place of the usual Rev Send).

You can follow the entire routing as follows:
*Select* Part 1 > Edit > touch “Effect” > “Routing”

Here you can see that Element1 and Element2 both pass through the “3-Band EQ” to “InsA” Rotary Speaker 1, then “InsA—>InsB”; InsB (Rotary Speaker 2) then to the “2-Band EQ”.

Next VarSend is 127… as you know “Dry Level” is 0, so this 127 controls the entire output of this routing.

The Elements of each Part are routed through the Insertion Effects, then the Var Send.

Why Silence when Performance Merge is used as you describe?
Because when you use “Performance Merge” to add “+” a new Performance to an existing Performance. The Insertion Effects are brought along, they are part of the instrument… but the SYSTEM EFFECTS belong to the Performance that is at HOME (in your case, they belong to “Init Normal (AWM2)”.

INSERT EFFECTs - part of the instrument (Part)
SYSTEM EFFECTs - belong to the band’s mixer (Performance)

“Init Normal (AWM2)” is at HOME
When you invite “Bowed Bars CV" over, it brings along the Rotary Speaker 1 and Rotary Speaker 2, but it inherits the Reverb and Variation Effects of its host
— the “Init Normal (AWM2)” has:
Reverb = “Rev-X”
Variation = “No Effect”

Because the organ you’ve selected is completely dependent on the Variation Effect being in place… you get no sound.

If you still wish to use the original programmer’s concept/idea (two Rotary Speakers) setup the new Performance to use the “Distortion: Small Stereo” as the Variation Effect and recreate the routing.

With your Performance
From HOME > press [EDIT] > touch “Effect” > “Routing”
For “Var” select the “Dist” > “Small Stereo”
Use the “Var to Rev” parameter to set the Reverb amount.
Ensure the Var Send = 127 and Dry Level = 0

 
Posted : 23/03/2023 8:35 pm
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

[quotePost id=120852]Why Silence when Performance Merge is used as you describe?
Because when you use “Performance Merge” to add “+” a new Performance to an existing Performance. The Insertion Effects are brought along, they are part of the instrument… but the SYSTEM EFFECTS belong to the Performance that is at HOME (in your case, they belong to “Init Normal (AWM2)”.[/quotePost]

Ohhhh, so THAT was the reason! Who programmed that sound decided to use 3 effects, using the Common Variation effect as it were a third insert effect... and, of course, Common effects are stored in the "mater" performance. I got it. Thank you, very much. 😀

 
Posted : 23/03/2023 10:30 pm
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