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Strange issue when using the Yamaha MODX multi channel recording template in Cubase

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I just created a new Cubase project and thought I would use the Yamaha MODX multi channel recording template.
I loaded the template and used the "MIDI Rec on DAW" quick setup on the MODX and selected the Multi/GM performance.

Now heres the strange thing. When selecting the first midi track in Cubase, I can hear the sound from the MODX, but when jumping to track 2 or any of the other tracks, there's no sound at all. I can see some MIDI activity in Cubase, but it looks like it's only input activity and no output.
One thing that's maybe even more strange, is that if I touch one of the midi channels on the MODX, I start to get sound on the same midi channel in Cubase.

Creating an empty project in Cubase and manually adding multiple midi channels works without any issues.

Anyone know what's going on?

Thanks
/Jugge

Edit. I think I found the reason why this happened. I tried to compare a midi track that I created manually with one from the template and found out that the track from the template have something called Input Transformer set to local. When turning this off, I get both midi in and out activity again. Curious what this function do and why it's enabled on the MODX template?

 
Posted : 18/05/2021 6:40 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

There are several versions of Cubase — how they behave with the Templates can be different (explained below). Normally, a Cubase MIDI Track will record all incoming MIDI data, regardless of Channel. A Channel is assigned to the Track data on the way Out of Cubase (unless you set the Out Channel = “Any”, which Outputs the data on the Channel on which the data originated.

If you are transmitting to a Cubase MIDI Track from your MODX on multiple MIDI Channels, it normally requires just one MIDI Track, set to “Any”, to record all MIDI Channels. The only reason to separate data by Channel to individual Tracks is for ease in editing or for notation. If using a light version of Cubase you would use the MIDI function called “Dissolve Parts” by Channel to divide the data to separate Tracks, after-the-fact.

The “Input Transformer” is designed for use with Cubase Pro to divide incoming data by Channel so that each Track can only record its designated Channel or type of message. It makes Cubase behave like the MONTAGE/MODX Performance Recorder — in that, each Part is routed to its own Track on its own MIDI Channel. Meaning you can record a MODX Performance with Keyboard sounds layered and split with multiple Arpeggio Phrases happening — all at once — and have each Part wind up on its own Track. This is done by simply placing multiple Tracks simultaneously in Record. Since each Track can only record the data from a single Channel (filtering all others), it makes multiple Part, multiple instrument recording really easy.

INPUT TRANSFORMER - a device through which your MIDI data will be sorted and filtered.
In Cubase Pro, the INPUT TRANSFORMER is used to create a situation where each MIDI Track can only record the data as specified: the "Sysex Track", for example, has the Input Transformer that Filters all but System Exclusive messages. Each of the numbered MIDI Tracks, 01-16, is set to reject all but a single MIDI channel and to reject Sysex:

Normally, a Cubase MIDI Track will record any and all incoming MIDI data, but this template sets up a situation where each MIDI Track can only record data from a specific MIDI Channel, and only the SYSEX Track can document System Exclusive messages.

Please see the following for details on the Input Transformer and the Template for “multi channel” recording...
Link — Cubase Pro Workflow

 
Posted : 18/05/2021 7:56 pm
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Topic starter
 

Thanks for the explanation and the link.

I should have mention that my Cubase version is Cubase Pro 10.5.

I normally record MIDI data to separate channels and only using the "dissolve parts" feature for the drums, so that I can record them to different audio tracks for mixing purpose.

If I understand the article correctly, I should be able to use the Multi/GM performance with this template even if input transformer is active? If so, then there must be some setting in either Cubase or on the MODX that is wrong.
My situation is that when I select a MIDI track in Cubase - let's say a MIDI track associated with MIDI channel 3, I don't get any sound at all and I see only MIDI in activity in Cubase.
However, if I select the same channel in the MODX by touching it, I get sound and see both MIDI in and out activity in Cubase.

/Jugge

 
Posted : 19/05/2021 12:00 pm
Jason
Posts: 8035
Illustrious Member
 

I'm wondering if on the Cubase side your MIDI tracks are only listening to a single Part on Input.

Multi/GM only has Part 1's keyboard control turned on. If Part 1 is selected then only MIDI Channel 1 will have output. If you press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) - which is normal - to select no Part - then, since Part 1 has keyboard control ON, your keyboard presses will only send out MIDI channel 1. This is fine.

On the Cubase side - assuming you have no Part selected on the MODX side - Cubase will only see data on MIDI Channel 1.

All of your Cubase MIDI tracks need the MIDI INPUT set to "All MIDI Inputs". The Cubase MIDI OUTPUT should be set to the Part # you want this track to correspond to.

When you select any track in Cubase - it will play only the associated Part because the MIDI routing goes in --> Any MIDI channel (which will mostly be 1 - or the channel corresponding with a single Part # if you happen to select that Part) --> back out the assigned MIDI out channel --> Into MODX --> MODX plays the sound associated with the Cubase OUTPUT MIDI channel.

Demonstration of this is here:

https://youtu.be/ZPPJeU9Ayy4?t=613

It's a different workflow than what you use since this above link's workflow has each track listening to ANY MIDI channel and then the "filtering" is done by only arming one track (on the Cubase side) at a time.

On the other hand ...

Using the input transformer - each track will only listen to a single MIDI channel. So you have to be sure you are outputting that MIDI channel on the MODX side. You do this by pressing the individual Part # to SELECT it. After selecting Part 2 of the Multi/GM Performance - then MODX will output MIDI to Channel 2 which allows for your track associated with Part 2 as an input MIDI channel to "see" the data. This kind of workflow has you managing the selected Part on the MODX side (as opposed to Dom's workflow which has the selection done on the Cubase side).

 
Posted : 19/05/2021 2:42 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

My situation is that when I select a MIDI track in Cubase - let's say a MIDI track associated with MIDI channel 3, I don't get any sound at all and I see only MIDI in activity in Cubase.

If you engage MIDI Track set for MIDI Channel 3, then it follows you must transmit from the MODX via MIDI Channel 3.

If you are using a “Multi/GM” Performance template, in order to transmit on Channel 3, you must *select* slot 3 of the MODX.
Local Control = Off when recording MIDI

Select Part slot 3 - Keyboard Transmits on Channel 3 —> arrives at active Cubase MIDI Track set to Ch 3 —> echoes back MIDI to the MODX Tone Generator Part 3.

 
Posted : 19/05/2021 2:55 pm
Jason
Posts: 8035
Illustrious Member
 

BTW - sometimes I benefit from the same exact information presented from different authors. It may help "click".

There's a long response on how to setup and use Cubase to record MIDI tracks here:
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/best-configuration-and-production-workflow-for-yamaha-montage-cubase-artist-10/117930/2

This workflow matches using Multi/GM and having to select the Part you want to record first (on MODX) before recording.

There's also other general advice there which is on-point.

 
Posted : 19/05/2021 8:13 pm
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks so much guys,

It's all a lot more clearer to me now 😀

/Jugge

 
Posted : 20/05/2021 6:04 am
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