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Transferring Motif ES voices

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Is there any way to transfer MotifES voices to the MODX?

 
Posted : 23/10/2018 7:59 pm
Bad Mister
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Yes. But not directly. The Motif ES Data could be translated by the Motif XS - the next model in the line typically has the built-in “look-up” table to convert the previous model’s data. The reason the new series cannot dip that far back could have a lot to do with the big change that occurred between the Motif ES and the Motif XS. The number of Elements in an AWM2 Voice increased from four to eight. The Arpeggiator concept and its use in the Performance changed dramatically.

But I’ve done it, just to see if it was possible. (That’s the crazy stuff I do). I was amazed at how well most of the sounds translated. I had forgotten many of the synths sounds and thought they would make great tutorial materials... For example, when you move a Motif XS/XF or MOXF sound over to the MONTAGE/MODX, you wind up with 10 additional Control Sets per Part, and 6 additional Assign Knobs, plus the ability to link them to the Super Knob... and this is a great way to learn to program.

Not everybody wants to build sounds from scratch (some do, some don’t) but imagine starting with a decent sounding program and adding to it.
Well, when you convert the ES Voices, you’ll have four empty Elements, in addition to all the rest of the things you can expand upon.

Step-by-Step is here:
Compatibility

 
Posted : 23/10/2018 9:16 pm
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Good news! I never made the migration away from the ES over the years; and pretty much my entire sound set has been customized and tweaked considerably. This gives me hope that I can salvage some of that... Thanks!

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 1:17 am
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So, I’m having some issues....I have Studio Manager and Motif ES Voice Editor installed on my computer. Both open and work properly. I’ve installed the Motif XF VST and i can see all the files that were downloaded but can’t open or run the program. Install Wizard goes through the entire operation of set up with no trouble. I am running an old PC w/ Windows Vista 32 bit running (Dinosaur, I know,lol) but I’ve downloaded the programs compatible W/ that OS. So close....help please! Thanks...

Had to edit this post..... went ahead and tried to drop the ES files into the ES Voice Editor and the files don’t show up. They load onto the Keyboard no problem, and copy on to the computer but the software doesn’t see it. I am transferring data using a SmartMedia card ( yep, I know), not sure if that matters or not.

I’m assuming it’s because of my outdated tech that things aren’t working. It seems if I had the Programs working properly, the actual process of Converting the data would be a breeze.

Is anyone out there with a computer from this decade able to help out? I can send the file via Dropbox, convert it for me then send it back? I’d be most grateful..... Thanks in advance....

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 9:22 pm
Jason
Posts: 7912
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EDIT - looks like you got past the Motif XF Editor issue or decided not to go that route. What follows is help for that portion of the thread which has since been edited/removed as a requirement by the OP.

Things that are VSTs often would need a DAW to host the VST. Typically, there is a .DLL file (for Windows) that you would copy into your DAW's designated directory to store VSTs.

There should also be a stand-alone version of the Motif XF application you downloaded which does not require a DAW to host.

The standalone should have an EXE file.

When I installed the standalone version, windows "stuck" it in the start menu - so there wasn't a need to hunt/peck for it.

Also, there are lots of versions of the software. Some only support 64-bit operating systems. Some should support 32-bit as you're running.

Example - this should not work due to the requirements: https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/motif_xf_editor_standalone_vst_win.html

OS
64-bit*
Windows 7 SP1/ Windows 8/ Windows 10

DAW Application(When using it as a VST3 plugin.)
Cubase 9 series

Others
These system requirements conform to those of the DAW applications and OS.

* Operation is not guaranteed in the Windows XP mode on Windows XP mode equipped with Windows 7 or the Boot Camp partition on Mac OS

All of the above information (and more) is present on the download link and likely in documentation inside the downloaded file.

This version is 32-bit, but only shows as a VST (requiring a DAW)
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/47301_en.html

This version includes standalone and supports 32-bit:
http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=countrysite-master.prod.wsys.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16381&product_id=1073317&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=21019

Notice there is a note about upgrading the firmware of Motif XF (if using online mode). So there may be a firmware version dependency.

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 10:07 pm
Jason
Posts: 7912
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Which step is not working in these instructions from the compatibility page:

Only voices that are based on the MOTIF ES’s internal waveforms can be read, so voice data created using user samples cannot be loaded. In addition, MOTIF ES Voice Editor may not be compatible with the latest versions of computer operating systems, so a computer able to run the software will be needed. The steps for loading a voice file are as follows.

1. Save the voice data in the MOTIF ES. Select either All Files (.W7A) or All Voice Files (.W7V) as the file save format.

2. Copy the saved file via USB flash memory, and open it using MOTIF ES Voice Editor.

3. Save the copied file using MOTIF ES Voice Editor. Use the file extension .W7E.

4. Import the saved .W7E file using MOTIF XF Editor VST.

5. Save the imported file using MOTIF XF Editor VST with the file extension .X3E.

6. Load the saved .X3E file into the MONTAGE via USB flash memory

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 10:13 pm
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Thanks for the reply.... definitely still stuck with XF Editor VST... I think the last Suggestion using the 32-bit standalone version is the answer but the link doesn’t bring me to it. I’ve been searching but can’t seem to find it....

As far as the steps for the ES editor I’m stuck @ step #2:
I’m using a smartmedia card to transfer the data. Tried formatting a USB stick but the ES wouldn’t let me format it. Road blocks at every step. I’m assuming that doesn’t matter though; Shouldn’t change the data. The file is visible on the computer, but when I try to open it from the ES editor it doesn’t see it.

That’s where I’m @ currently.....

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 10:51 pm
Jason
Posts: 7912
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... I would think the issue is with:

2. Copy the saved file via USB flash memory, and open it using MOTIF ES Voice Editor.

Because, as far as I know, the Motif ES Voice Editor does not support W7A or W7V files. It only deals with editor files.

The primary way of getting data in/out of the Motif ES Voice editor is through a Motif ES doing bulk transfers - then saving this result as a W7E.

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 11:00 pm
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Not even sure where to begin with that. I’ve always transferred my files the way I described....how do I handle doing a bulk transfer?

Also, the directions specially say to save files as W7A or W7V. Step 3 involves resaving it as W7E....

 
Posted : 24/10/2018 11:27 pm
Jason
Posts: 7912
Illustrious Member
 

I think the Voice editor doesn't see the file because the directions are flawed asking to load an unsupported file.

I'm looking forward to Yamaha chiming in and clarifying.

Bulk transfer is done when you read the Voice from the keyboard through USB (no media transfer). The ES docs show the possibilities.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/656933/Yamaha-Motif-Es.html?page=145

It may be easier with the original Motif ES to File [F2] Save as "type" set to "Voice Editor" which will save a W7E from the get-go with no need to further convert through the ES Voice Editor.

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 1:43 am
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Jason.....your the man! I’ve been sitting here literally all day trouble shooting; and thanks to you I’m FINALLY getting into the real work of creating. I can’t thank you enough. After several attempts I found the correct version of the Motif XF editor that was compatible with my computer. And you were spot on about saving the file from the “Voice editor” instead of “All or All Voice”. Thanks again for your help and your time!!

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 2:59 am
Jason
Posts: 7912
Illustrious Member
 

No problem. When I did this with my MO6 (an ES series keyboard) - I manually converted the handful of voices and performances from MO6 I wanted to port over using screens on the MO6, a spreadsheet I made with tables of parameters going between the two instruments (MO6 and "MODX" - actually Montage - same difference) and hand entered everything. Hopefully this semi-automated process saves you some time.

Typically, you're going to want to "retouch" the material after conversion as the resulting sound may not be fully representative after conversion.

There's an article (ES_MO_2XS.pdf) that walks through this which was an article prepared by BM during the transition between the ES and XS series of Motifs. Reference: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/can-i-load-motif-es-patterns-songs-into-motif-xf

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 9:44 am
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I was surprised at how much actually transfered over....there’s a little bit of tweaking to do but it’ll definitely make the transition over a whole lot easier.

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 3:19 pm
Posts: 801
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I know there are differences in architecture that can impact the results, bur are all the waves from the Motif ES in the MODX? Or is another source of difference that the MODX may be substituting different waves?

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 4:09 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Absolutely. Each successive product has a direct lookup table that makes the appropriate substitution. When you loaded an ES File to the XS, it would look for the same Waveform, if present, and if not, lookup and substitute an appropriate Waveform when new data was introduced.

Larger versions of some of the sounds are used in later models as the ROM size got larger with each successive model. The one thing you can be sure of is the people who know the data best were in charge of the transition from ES to XS, from XS to XF and from XF to MONTAGE/MODX. So the best of best survived, and others that did not were replaced with an upgraded version.

 
Posted : 25/10/2018 7:45 pm
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