Some amount of deja-vu.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/release-time-duration

I don't agree that "use your ears" is the best advice in all cases. I think it's one way. Without official information from Yamaha you're going to have to do the work on your own. Making recordings and analyze the waveforms to resolve timing and how it works from a more analytical approach.

Maybe there has been land erosion on the walls built up to impede the flow of information. Maybe not. I think historical answers to the same questions indicates you need to do the "lab" work on your own. Others have taken measurements with various tools to help resolve some of these questions. I'm not aware they ever published something that's publicly available. Probably due to some of the work being related to commercial applications.

And then there are folks who "could" do the grunt work but elect not to because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. If you're interested in taking a more analytical approach to envelopes - the methods are waiting there. I wanted a shortcut to this and ultimately decided I would just have a more blurred approach. Mostly because none of my audience is awaiting microsecond accuracy in my envelopes.

That doesn't make the pursuit any less valid - just that I don't have skin the game to try to do more than I have already trying to get information from the source.

[quotePost id=114716]
How else can you avoid that 'Filter EG or a Pitch EF that takes more time to evolve than your AEG supports'?
[/quotePost]

I suspect the Filter EG has a slightly longer release duration (all other values being equal) than the AEG so as to permit the amplitude's earlier cutting of volume to hide some of the ugly squelch the FEG causes on (particularly) resonance of the filter.

This behaviour, at least to my thinking, is deliberate and by design.

Similarly, there feels to be more snappier attack control on the FEG than the AEG, so as to get more interesting nuance in the attack of the filter coming into play than the rather dull curves of the attack in AEG.

To my ears, at least, and within my experiments, it feels as though the oddities between FEG and AEG are somewhat on purpose. PEG seems more arbitrary, but that might be just that I don't know why they've made it behave the way it does.

Or, as said before, per Graham's comments, just different programming teams with different sensibilities and techniques/considerations.

One odd thing about the FEG is that it's possible to overwhelm it, such that changes to the cutoff can cause pausing of any and all filter activity. So there might be some serious programming/processing limitations being managed in whatever they've done.

[quotePost id=114700][quotePost id=114698]Dragos, am sure I've helped you as much as you've helped others.[/quotePost]
Reliably delusional.[/quotePost]

if one of these values is zero, it'll make more sense to (even) you.

One other thing to consider, these lines we see on the screen are straight line segments. However, there does feel to be some curvature to them, and I suspect the rates of those curves are different between the AEG and FEG, and more truly linear on the PEG.

Well, I suppose you could summarise my first post into 1 line....

Is this information available?

... and the answer appears to be "No".

That's cool. I can live with that. The good news is I don't need to expend any energy looking for it.

I can, and may do, some empirical testing just to satisfy my own curiosity within my rather trivial needs.

Trivial is an honest and true description of my feelings on this... no sarcasm, no satire. It really is no big deal.

I can tell you all, I did start to have a look at PEG, since it is measurable by ear (assuming you can hear semitone pitches).

I will share the little I have, and advise further refinements on the math will be needed. Call this a rough sketch.

Depth vs Level
In PEG "Deviation" Level dictates some deviation in pitch from the Pitch of the Key you played. Considering positive values only, I assume the same for negative values.

At first I thought 4096 levels of coded Pitch Deviation attained from the PEG, but testing I think only 4064 available (we are in digital 0-127 territory)

Roughly
Deviation Level 4096 = 2 Octaves
Deviation Level 2048 = 1 Octave

Divide 2048 by 12... you get 170.6666 (Music is Base 12, Digital/Hex is Base 16.... they don't match too well).

Lets call 170.6666 = 171

171 = 57 × 3.

If you were so inclined, you could get a 1 Semi-tone Raise in Pitch by setting

Level = 3 (out of 127)
Depth = 57 (out of 63)

or

Level = 57
Depth = 3

The actual "level" deviation on pitch is a value you cannot see.

The pitch deviation value = PEG Level × Depth.

I estimated the max pitch deviation level = 4064 = 127 × 32.... which is slightly flat of 2 Octaves.

If PEG Level x Depth > 4064, then it is set to 4064. Like Offsets, it cannot be greater than 4064.

Knowing all this seems rather pointless. However, at least now you know that if you try setting a PEG Level and Depth that multiply to greater than 4064.... you are wasting your time.

In short... you get 2 Octaves Up, 2 Octaves Down.

But... I have yet to test....

A line travelling from level 0 to 3, in the space of 500ms, is shorter, than a line travelling from level 0 to 57 in the same 500ms.

The line itself differs in length. Its the hypoteneuse of a triangle.

How is PEG Time calculated?

Is it the time to travel from Point A to Point B, always at a constant Rate?
If A to B gets longer, then the travel time gets longer. New York to London, vs New York to Berlin.

or

Is it an ABSOLUTE time? That is, the time to travel from A to B will always be the same regardless of the distance between A and B. Travel from NY to London takes the same time as travel from NY to Berlin.... it has to follow that the plane travelling to Berlin flies A LOT faster.

So... you have set all you PEG Times and Levels just right, and its matching your AEG and FEG.... and think, maybe a bit more raise in Pitch.... increase the Depth. Only now, the note has been cutoff by the AEG way before getting to the desired Pitch. But you didn't change any Time values?

This is kinda why I am interested.

Stuff like this has happened, and I've never quite figured out why.

Still to be tested. 🙂

HINT: Depth changes the relationships between points.
I could give a score of reasons why your time is better spent elsewhere, but as long as you are having fun.
Also with envelopes, in general, notice how Key On and Key Off impact them... if you release a Key before it has traversed all Level and Time settings - the envelope immediately jumps to the Release settings