Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Velocity filter cutoff/reaonance

9 Posts
5 Users
0 Reactions
308 Views
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

How exactly does this work? I increase the values in the screen where the filter cutoff/type is set yet it does not seem to really do anything. Are there any tutorials out there? Also I'd like to see a manual for the effects. Some of the modulation effects parameters are not exactly clear as to what they do.

 
Posted : 14/04/2022 4:51 am
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

Also I'd like to see a manual for the effects. Some of the modulation effects parameters are not exactly clear as to what they do.

Have you been referencing the Synthesizer Parameters Manual?

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/812531/synthesizer_en_pm_c0.pdf

Title: Velocity filter cutoff/reaonance
How exactly does this work? I increase the values in the screen where the filter cutoff/type is set yet it does not seem to really do anything.

Repeating back what I think you're talking about (to see if we're on the same page) - I believe you're asking about "Cutoff/Vel" and "Res/Vel" parameters on the "Filter" -> "Type" menu.

If so, then ...

Just to have it here - I'll copy the reference manual information.

Res/Vel (Resonance Velocity Sensitivity)
Determines the degree to which Resonance responds to Velocity, or the strength with which you play
notes. This parameter is not displayed depending on the selected Filter Type.
Settings: -64 – +63
Positive values: The higher the Velocity, the greater the Resonance.
Negative values: The lower the Velocity, the greater the Resonance.
0: No change of the Resonance value.

Cutoff/Vel (Cutoff Velocity Sensitivity)
Determines how the Cutoff Frequency responds to Velocity, or the strength with which you play notes.
Settings: -64 – +63
Positive values: The more strongly you play the keyboard, the more the Cutoff Frequency rises.
Negative values: The more softly you play the keyboard, the more the Cutoff Frequency rises.
0: The Cutoff Frequency does not change, regardless of the Velocity

I've used these parameters myself to brighten up sounds as I play at higher velocities - so I know they work well.

Certainly, you need velocities to be varying for this to work. There are a couple of ways you may not be seeing velocity variation:

1) An arpeggio is playing the Part, set to play the velocities inside the arpeggio, and those velocities do not vary.
2) The element you are listening to is velocity limited and only will sound in a narrow velocity range while other elements sound in different velocity range(s). The filter settings are per element - so that may be one way.

... more likely:

Lets take cutoff. That one is easier to deal with because cutoff covers a wider frequency range than resonance. Say your Cutoff/Vel value is positive meaning the higher velocity you hit the keyboard, the more cutoff is offset positively (ADDED to). On the filter screen you can set the cutoff value without any offset. The nominal cutoff value. Lets say you have this as a very high value. You cannot add more water to a glass that's full. So you won't hear any difference. Lower that cutoff value to a very low value. Assuming using LPF12+HPF12 (the default filter for "Init Normal (AWM2)" ) - having a low cutoff produces a very dark sound. With the Cutoff/Vel at maximum of +63 you can now hear the faster you press a key (higher velocity) the brighter the note gets. I'm using "Init Normal (AWM2)" because this Part doesn't get louder or softer with velocity so you can more hear variation in the filter. It also demonstrates that the velocity impact on amplitude and filter can be independent.

Therefore, it's possible you've "saturated" the cutoff and cannot hear variation because you are too close to the cutoff ceiling.

There are other possibilities though - it would help to know what filter you're using or maybe what preset Performance.

Resonance is a setting that applies to a very narrow frequency band. If your notes are not sounding at those frequencies within the resonance "band" then you're not going to hear a difference. Honestly, the impact of this parameter is much more subtle even when I know I'm in the right area.

What you need to do to start hearing this is place the resonance actual value (not Res/Vel - but Resonance) to maximum and then increase/decrease cutoff until you hear the resonance. Keep in mind I'm still referencing the LPF12+HPF12 filter of "Init Normal (AWM2)". You'll hear a "chirp" sound where the sound starts to alias for the note you're playing. This is where the sample and resonance are lined up. Now decrease the resonance so it's not "saturated" (having a problem similar to the cutoff issue above) and turn the Res/Vel value up to +63 for maximum impact with velocity variation. You may need the default "Resonance" (non offset) parameter to be non-zero. Play with that. There is a spot where you can hear the difference in resonance by velocity. Again - it's relatively subtle. Still, it's there.

When I'm using these parameters I always use Cutoff/Vel. Not that I couldn't use Res/Vel - but I just haven't found that I need to spend the time to "sculpt" resonance to this degree. Cutoff is more obvious and does what I want in the timeline I want to keep.

There may be times where resonance plays a larger part. I don't tend to use those filter types - although there are filter types where resonance covers a wider frequency band. Don't let me dissuade you - I'm just sharing my experience of what I've personally run into which is a function of the specific sounds I've developed or altered.

You can visually see the graph when increasing resonance how "wide" of a frequency spectrum is affected - so this is easy to "see" using the instrument itself.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 14/04/2022 6:03 am
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you everyone. My comment on the cutoff and resonance not being affected by velocity was mostly referencing my attempts with an unprocessed saw wave form. I'm aware of how it works but I didn't feel it was actually working correctly, I think I need to experiment more.

And that parameter guide is just what I needed, thank you! Not sure why I hadn't seen that before.

 
Posted : 14/04/2022 3:11 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

TLDR:- A brief overview of Traditional Filter operation, why they are used, and why they are important.

Not wishing to insult anyone's intelligence here.

I believe the MODX has opened doors to a vast new market segment of "inexperienced" synth users, myself included. To whit, had the MODX not existed, then these new users, would likely not have bought a Synth.

I have found, as a "newbie" that a lot of "Incumbant Synth Knowledge" is presumed onto said newbies, this includes the direction of content in the various User Manuals.

The MODX is unusual in that it is so "historical-feature rich" that it is far from being an ideal "first synth", but ironically, that is what it has become.

So, Filters! Unless you have been using them on a daily basis for the last three decades, Filters can be difficult to understand. They needn't be with some basic knowledge.

First, a Filter is not the same as an EQ (Traditionally Bass, Middle and Treble "Tone" controls), although an EQ maybe (and usually is) composed of several Filters working in tandem.

In the Synth world a Filter is used like a Window Blind, limiting the amount of sunlight into a room. The more "closed" it is, the less sunlight gets in. Fully closed, fully dark.

When a Filter is fully "open", it is allowing all Frequencies within it's designed range to "pass through".

When a Filter is "adjusted" it starts to shut out frequencies. The range of frequencies it allows through is reduced.

The boundary point at which Frequencies are "passed" or "not passed" is the Cut-Off Frequency, or simply "Cutoff".

There 3 basic types of Filter.

1) Low Pass Filter (LPF). The most common in the Synth World. Frequencies below its Cut-off are passed.

2) High Pass Filter (HPF). Frequencies above its Cut-off are passed.

3) Band Pass Filter (BPF). This has two Cut-off points. Frequencies below its Higher Cut-off are passed, and frequencies higher than its Lower cut-off are passed. In effect it cuts out low and high frequencies simultaneously, allowing only the "middle band" frequencies through.

So, for a Filter to have any noticeable effect on a sound, then:-

a) the frequency content of that sound has to be within the "fully open" range of the Filter.

b) The Cut-off range of the Filter (sweep) has to fall across the frequency range of the "Sound" in question.

Easy example:-

A "Bass Sound" going into a Low Pass Filter. Because it is a Bass Sound, by definition, it has very little or no high frequency content.

So, sweeping the LPF's "High Frequency Cutoff" through higher frequencies has no effect on the sound. This is because the Bass sound had no Higher Frequencies to be "cut off" to begin with.

So why use Filters and not just an EQ?

The answer to this is at the core of "original" or "traditional" analogue Sound Synthesis aka "Subtractive Synthesis". It also answers to some extent why "traditionally" the Oscillators on a Synth are Saw, Square, Triangle or Sine waves.

Each of these oscillator sounds has it's own "signature" harmonic content. That is, as well as the fundamental frequency (the note being played) there are also Higher Frequency "Harmonics" included in the sound. This collection of harmonics is known as the "Harmonic Spectrum". The odd-one-out is the Sine Wave because it has no harmonics, but is included usually to enforce the fundamental (Example... "Sub Oscillator" Bass Octave)

Unlike EQs, Filters are used to "re-shape" this Harmonic Spectrum by eliminating (Subtracting) certain frequencies, and making, for example, a Saw Wave sound like a blown Trumpet, or a Square wave sound like a bowed Violin.

In practice, being Digital, the MODX has a truck load of different (simulated) Filters, each with a very wide Cutoff Range, and each behaving differently with respect to Harmonic Frequency Spectrums.

To re-iterate what Jason has said previously, Filters may only "affect" a given sound source within a given range of cut-off values (cut-off frequencies). This is highly dependent on the Sound Source in play. In the case of AWM, if the "recorded" element/sample is already devoid of high frequencies, then "sweeping" the Cutoff through the high-frequencies of a LPF will make no difference to the sound heard.

Unlike Analogue Synths of old, MODX Filters are not chosen or matched to the onboard oscillators. Rather, you have full frequency, Wide Ranging options in both Sound Source and Filter, therefore you have the choice and ability to match them yourself.

So a good practice with Filters on the MODX is to "suck it and see".

Play the Sound Source, and manually sweep through all the Cutoff values (255 -> 0) to home in the range of Cutoff Values that have the desired effect. Also, try different Filter Types, the differences can be quite remarkable.

Ideally you would set the Cutoff Parameter value to be at or near the desired "effect".

This then enables the most efficient use of Filter Cutoff modulation parameters such as Cutoff/Vel. These create "offsets" which are simply real-time numerical additions or subtractions to the actual (stored) Cutoff Value. Typically the range of offsets is less than the Parameter range, so setting the Parameter correctly to begin with is important.

The "strongest" feature of any Synth in my opinion is the Filter Envelope (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release - ADSR). I would argue this is of far more use than the Amp/VCA (Volume) ADSR, almost to the point of making the VCA redundant.

In the case of the MODX, the Filter ADSR is also enhanced with "extras" over the traditional Synth versions. To take advantage of these... careful consideration all of the above applies.

To exercise yourself through the basics I recommend:-

Create 3 separate INIT AWM2 Performances, each with a Single Element "Raw Oscillator"... Saw, Square and Triangle. You will find these in Waveform Category Seach with Main Category = SynLd and Sub Category = Analogue. Or just text search.

Leave the Amp and Pitch Envelope Generators (EG = ADSR) as they are, and concentrate only on the Filter Section.

Make a Basic Filter Envelope, and set the FEG "DEPTH" to a mid value like "32".

Use the MODX Parameter Manual to understand which "Cutoff" parameter is the "active component" for each type of Filter and its FEG.

You can use this as a vehicle to start exploring all the other Filter parameters and also create your own custom "Filter Modulation Matrix" e.g. Control Assigns, Motion Sequences, LFOs etc.

I found it useful to create and name immediate Assign Knob controls for the more common Filter Parameters - Cutoff, FEG Attack, FEG Decay and FEG Depth. I'll let you figure this out yourself. It will save time menu diving while you experiment, and give you more of an "Analogue Synth Knob Per Function" feel.

????

 
Posted : 15/04/2022 3:29 am
Posts: 1715
Noble Member
 

Velocity Filter Cutoff is a 1 (one) based Scalar Percentage Modifier, shown as 63 to 0 for positive values, 0 to -64 for negative values.

If you choose a Velocity Filter Cutoff value of 21, that's a 1/3rd range modifier... which I'll try to explain in simple numbers...

Velocity, not shown by Yamaha (would be hugely helpful, right here, on this UI page where it's needed*), is also a percentage.

Calculate like this, in a single note hit example:

Your Velocity Filter Cutoff = 21
Your Cutoff value = 150
Your Velocity = 50% of available

computes as:

Played Note Filter Cutoff = ( 2/3rd of 150 ) + ( 1/3rd of 150 * Velocity as Percentage)

simplified:

Played Note Filter Cutoff = 100 + (50 * 0.5) = 125

Not surprised this is confusing and difficult to examine.

Yamaha has done a truly woeful job of describing it, naming it and presenting it.

*edit for contextless literalists below

 
Posted : 15/04/2022 6:00 am
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

Velocity, not shown by Yamaha (would be hugely helpful), is also a percentage.

Do you mean it would be helpful to see the velocity in range of 0-127 as you strike a key?

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 15/04/2022 6:29 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

You can see the Velocity with which you hit a Key.

From the home screen, screen press the Velocity Limit box of a Part, then flip through the "View" screens until you see the Velocity Window to the right.

 
Posted : 15/04/2022 11:50 am
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

Yes, I was going to make this comment but "Velocity not shown" could arguably apply to a number of velocity-related items not just raw velocity of the key.

Since velocity is always transmitted through MIDI - it's trivial to use a MIDI monitor to get the actual values of velocity although if Andrew was looking for MODX/Montage to report velocity then the VIEW menu for split-screen and then pressing the velocity limit box for any Part was going to be my suggestion. It doesn't show by number - but the graph plot is close enough for most work.

The benefit of using a MIDI monitor is that you can be on a non-Home screen editing some other parameter and see real-time velocity actual values at the same time you're adjusting some other parameter which may itself be velocity related.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 15/04/2022 6:15 pm
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us