My question is, is there a way to assign the volume for the entire performance, with all of its parts, to one slider, two at most? How do I do this?

The Main Volume slider does this.

I think this isn't what you want, though. If you want one slider to control the volume of multiple Parts then this is possible but it eats up a Part and isn't easy to program.

There are other ways.

Master Volume - that'd be it. My daily driver is a Montage which presents this feature as a slider.

I must admit, I am thoroughly confused about the logic of how all this is supposed to work. But I'll try my best to be clear in describing the problem:
This happens to many multi-part instruments in my MODx8. In this example, the instrument is Solo 1stViolin AF1, which is made of two parts.
The Superknob merges parts 1 and 2. Turning Supperknob all the way left is part 1, while all the way Right is part 2.

- The 1st attached photo "Part1" shows how soloing part 1 and using the volume slider corresponding to part 1 does nothing to control, well, volume. The volume is at zero while sound is still coming out. This is unexplainable fact nr 1.

- Part 2 gets more confusing. With the Supperknob all the way to the Right, which sounds 100% of Part 2, the volume slider 2 does nothing to control volume. The photo Part2_Vol_SuperKnob@100%.png shows how the slider is at zero while sound is still coming out. Just as in the case of part one above.
However, if I turn the Superknob down to about 38% of part2, (with Part 2 still being Soloed), now I can control the volume from the slider normally, as I should have been able to in the first place: Slider down to zero = zero sound, Slider all the way up= full sound. Why this happens only when Superknob is at 38% of part 2, I do not know. See this instance in the photo Part2_Vol_SuperKnob@38%.png That would conclude unexplainable facts 2&3 respectively.

All this just makes me scratch my head and not know even where to begin to with my original problem: controlling volume from one slider, or at least two. I'd settle for controling volume from two sliders but as you saw that does not work because at least part 1 is completely unresponsive to the slider, while part two is only responsive when at 38% of Supperknowb which defeats the whole merging of two parts system. I need to sound both parts, not swivel between part 1 and 2.

Now if I could control the volume of both parts simultaneously from the Superknob, I would settle for that, although I would much rather prefer to be able to use sliders for volume as the control for what I need is much finer and more solid with the slider due to the straight-line motion, than with any knob, - rotary motion is not so good for controlling exactly where you started from and returning to the same point. So I don't like to HAVE to use a knob, BUT, I'll settle for that if it using sliders is not possible or feasible.

As it is the Superknob controls the merging of parts. The manual talks about the same, and nothing on how to assign volume control to it. I do not find anywhere how to make the Supperknob control volume. I did find this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5eDImTUtZo
but A). it only controls the volume of one part, and I need to control the volume of all parts in a performance, and B). it does not work as shown. 🙁 I can get into the steps of how it doesn't work if you want.

I skipped past describing why the sliders that are there don't respond intuitively because you asked to lower and raise the volume of all Parts which is what master volume does.

This certainly raises and lowers volumes based on where they are. Individual control is managed through the superknob, sliders, assignable knobs, etc.

I think what you're missing is that something other than the sliders can control volume. The ghost in the machine, if you will. At first this can be daunting, confusing, illogical. And, I admit that the system could do a better job of presenting to the user what's being offset (and by which controller(s) ). However, I'm going to skip past too much of giving the system a reprimand and try to help you understand "Solo 1stViolin AF1".

1) I use [CATEGORY SEARCH] to search for "Solo Viol" and find the right Performance selecting it
2) I press a key and slide slider 1 up and down and see it registers between a "volume" of 0 and 127 on the HOME screen but the volume coming out of the instrument (perceived volume) doesn't change.
... I immediately think something else is regulating volume.
3) I notice that this is a morphing type Performance - where turning the superknob changes the balance of Part 1 vs. Part 2. So I know Superknob is more in control of the volume than the sliders.
Notice: If you turn the superknob to the middle 12o'clock position, then you can see both slider 1 and 2 work. To a degree - you can't get both down to 0 but both raise and lower volume. After all, superknob is still under control here.
4) I touch Part 1 from the home screen and choose "Edit"
NOTE: Do not move the sliders when editing a Part. You'll change the ELEMENT levels - the sliders change what they control depending on keyboard mode.
5) Navigate to "Mod/Control" -> "Control Assign" menu. This is where the parameter that is controlled by superknob is eventually assigned.
6) Touch "Display Filter" and change it to "All" - It's the last selection in the list
7) In the upper right, I see "Page" and under it a page number. I press "<" to go back to page 1 and start looking for "Volume"
8) Page 2 destination 6 shows "Volume". Ok - I keep scrolling through to make sure there's not another destination # with the same parameter of volume. There isn't.
9) Back to destination 6 on Page 2 - I click the destination and it shows me as the source is "AssgnKnob 6". This is Part 1's Assignable Knob #6. Since the volume is being controlled by superknob - I know that Part 1's assignable knob #6 is being "turned" through another Common/Audio level assignable knob which is connected to Superknob. We can trace this through - but for now press "Delete" in the lower right to get rid of this "Volume" destination. Now superknob is no longer in control of volume for Part 1. Still, don't move those sliders.
10) Press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) to go back to the home screen. Now your sliders are under Part control. This is what you want. Move slider #1 up and down and you see this Part responds to the slider.

We haven't done anything to Part 2 - so Part 2 is silent no matter what you do with slider 2. That's because superknob is in control of Part 2 and I haven't moved superknob yet. It's fully counter-clockwise which will silence Part 2.

Apply what you've learned here to Part 2 if you want to remove Superknob from controlling Part 2's volume.

I'll get to tracing back to superknob in another installment.

... ok, last I left off we know Part 1's Assignable Knob #6 was (before deleting the assignment) modulating Part 1's Volume. This was the ghost in the machine causing sliders to act in a non-intuitive manner. There were too many cooks in the kitchen and, unaware, you did not know the influence of another controller placing its weight on the scale.

A quick review of assignable knobs - there are actually 17 sets of assignable knobs. One for each of the 16 Parts. These assignable knobs are local to each Part and so Part 1's Local Assignable knobs can directly modulate Part 1's destination parameters. No other assignable knobs can do this. Not Part 2-16. And not the 17th set of assignable knobs. The 17th set of assignable knobs are the Common assignable knobs. These belong the entire Performance. They cannot directly change Part-level parameters. They have to first "chain" to a Part level assignable knob. The Common assignable knobs are the only ones directly connected to Superknob. They can opt out of linking to superknob altogether by turning off the superknob link. And they can be set to turn reverse from superknob by using the "Hi" and "Low" values (if the "Low" value is a bigger number than the "High" value then these will turn counter to the superknob). And these can also be scaled to only turn a small amount or between a certain range when superknob travels through its full range.

So you have

(Superknob) -->[Link On/Off]-->[Common Assignable Knob(s)]-->[Part Level Assignable Knob(s)]-->[Destination Parameter (s)]

Review's over.

To trace back:

1) press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) and touch the Performance name. Then select "Edit".
2) Navigate to the "Control" --> "Control Assign" menu . This should look familiar. It's similar to the Part-level menu
3) Change the "Display Filter" to "All". This Performance only has 2 destinations. There may be pages of these but not here. The two destinations are "Part 1 Assign 6" and "Part 2 Assign 6".

... we know from the last summary that Part 1's Assignable knob #6 is modulating Volume. So here we have a destination as Part 1 Assignable Knob 6. Lets see what the source is.

4) Touch Destination 1 (Part 1 Assign 6). Notice the "Source" box shows "AsgnKnob 1". This means that the COMMON Assignable Knob #1 is chained to Part 1's Assignable Knob #6. And, even though we deleted the destination of Volume for Part 1 Assignable Knob 6 - the Common Assignable Knob #1 is still modulating Part 1's Assignable Knob 6 (which isn't really tied to anything downstream anymore).

Ok - we know common assignable knob #1 is modulating Part 1 Assign 6. And if we touch Part 2 Assign 6 as the destination, we see Common Assignable Knob #2 is modulating it. Lets look at how these Common Assignable knobs are linked to Superknob.

5) Press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) to return to the home screen
6) Touch the "Motion Control" tab on the far left
7) Touch the "Super Knob" sub-menu

Here all of the Common Assignable Knobs are shown and how they relate to Superknob. Knobs 1&2 here are involved with the Part 1 and 2 volume (at least before we deleted the volume destination). And we see both of these knobs are linked ("ON" ) to superknob. We see the low value for Knob 1 is 127 and high value is 0. This is reverse polarity so when superknob is full counter clockwise - Common Assignable Knob 1 will be 127 (full clockwise) and when superknob is full counterclockwise, Common Assignable Knob 1 will be 0 (full counter clockwise).

We see that Common Assignable Knob #2 has a reduced range. It is normal polarity but only travels between 0 minimum and 89 maximum.

Now you know how to trace all the way back through the different levels of assignments.

This performance anomaly is always cropping up in MODX and MONTAGE threads. The answer is simple (one line... see below) but is always clouded and buried in a mass of other complexities and variables.

THE ANSWER
If a particular Part Volume or Element Volume is assigned to a controller in the Control Assign matrix then the respective SLIDER will no longer control the volume for that Part or Element.

The solution is to search through all the Control Assigns and DELETE the assign pertaining to Volume.

The most common culprits are Part or Element "cross fades", set up on the SuperKnob. But, the root cause could be anywhere (Assign Knobs, Mod Wheel, Assign Switches, Envelope Followers etc).

I will create a separate thread and see if it can be made a "Sticky".

It's a good idea.

"Forum Operations Management" has been sadly lacking (nee non-existent) on YamahaSynth for years.

Maybe the recent forum upgrade is a sign of better things to come. ????

To be clear, when you have the control assignments using Part "Volume" as a destination - this doesn't "take over" from the sliders. Parameters are always offsets. Volume too. If you offset volume then the sliders can still raise and lower volume. It matters how the math works out.

When sliders stop having any impact is when the offset imposed by the control assignment prevents any change in the final result. Parameters have a minimum and maximum. Volume is minimum 0 and maximum 127. Once you reach a minimum, you are "stuck" at the minimum. Same for max.

If your offset is (as a hypothetical) +127 absolute - then the slider can never have an impact.

Slider=(range of 0 through 127) + Offset 127 = range of 127-254, capped at 127, so result is always 127 no matter where the slider position is at.

If your offset is -127 absolute, then the slider can never have an impact.

Slider=(range of 0 through 127) + (Negative Offset of -127) = range of -127-0. So no matter where the slider is, the resulting value will always be negative or 0 - which is floored at "0" - so the value will always be 0 no matter where the slider is at.

If your offset is +64 then the slider between 0-63 (all the way down to half way) will change the volume but then above the half-way point the result will be greater than 127 and therefore will hit the ceiling. So half the slider doesn't an an impact on the final result.

Sometimes this is explained as the control matrix "taking over". It's a half truth. If the offset is +127 (or more) or -127 (or less) then the control matrix becomes dominant influence. However, everything adds together and the chips fall where they do bound by the minimum and maximum limits.

The risk of over simplifying would miss out on how the system works and why and how you would use Volume as a destination in combination with the sliders.

@J...

I can't comment on the Montage, but on the MODX, if you re-assign Part Volume to any Source in the Control Assign matrix, the Slider will no longer function as a Volume Control for that Part. Same goes for Element Volume.

The Slider will still perform its other functions, but for Volume it does nothing, irrespective of Contol Assign position/offset.

I had this same head scratching issue when I first bought the MODX and was provided a definitive answer along the same lines. IIRC the reasoning was that you cannot have two separate controllers (e.g. Slider and Assign Knob) having real time control of the same parameter value, which would cause a CPU conflict I presume.

Also, there was a similar argument presented regarding the fact you cannot use the Sliders as "Controllers" in the Control Assign matrix (you can use Mod Wheel, Assign Knobs etc).

And also... why Sliders cannot be CC controlled. They respond only to SysEx, this knowledge, IIRC you provided me with (and I thank you again for that ???? ).

Wow so glad I had someone share this thread. I was wrestling with this very topic last night!

It's only when the offset dominates that the slider can no longer control volume according to the simple math conveyed.

The easiest way to demonstrate the dominance is to set the curve of the "Volume" destination to "hold" and then apply the maximum positive or maximum negative offset using the ratio parameter.

The sliders are "completely" disabled for Part volume control when:

1) Vol/Exp receive is turned off. In this case, you won't see the slider LEDs on Montage and possibly MODX has a popup on the screen showing the slider's contribution to volume. I don't know exactly how MODX differs here because I don't think sliders have LEDs on MODX.

2) You have any Part selected. In this case, the sliders will be controlling element volumes and not Part volumes. Note: when you are editing any Part - that Part is automatically selected.

3) The [SHIFT] + [PART CONTROL] buttons are pressed or Performance is set to default this mode which flashes the [PART CONTROL] button. Here sliders are also controlling element levels even when no Part is selected.

Note: the Element/Operator LED will illuminate to indicate element slider control as well.

4) Local Control is turned off and no external device is echoing MIDI messages back

5) Keyboard Control is turned off for a given Part and otherwise sliders are in a mode to control Part volumes.

And control can be impaired (not completely disabled) if conflicting external MIDI messages are "fighting" (i.e. a MIDI routing issue).

Grey Areas?

I will have to resign to my black/white, pessimistic view of the world, born of my engineering profession.

I accept that many people do not view functionality the same.

In my perspective:- Case Study - A Car Steering Wheel that will only turn the car Right, and not turn it Left.

Me: The Steering Wheel is non functional.
The Rest of the World: The Steering Wheel does work, just plan a route where you only need to turn right.

A workaround is discovered. If the Aircon is switched off, the Steering Wheel will turn right and left as normal.

Me: The Steering Wheel is still non functional.
The Rest of The World: Hooray! Its fixed!

To anyone who wants full Slider Functionality, my advice remains the same. Delete Part Volume & Element Level Control Assigns.

This of course does not take into account the myriad of MIDI Connectivity and Compatability issues that can arise, and which may affect multiple functions of the MODX and not just Sliders. This is a completely separate issue in my humble opinion.

There is a YouTube channel called "Just Rolled In". It portrays vehicles brought in for mechanical servicing of "minor" issues. They are anything but minor.

Watching this channel, I am frequently astounded at Joe Public's seemingly unlimited tolerance for stuff that "does not work". I am also astounded by the amount of effort they will undertake to alleviate the problem, when there is usually a quick, inexpensive, obvious and correct solution at hand.

On a Guitar Forum, there's a guy who recently bought a brand new USA Fender Stratocaster. After a week of ownership, he decided he did not like the Standard Fender "Tremolo Bridge" unit, but instead wanted a Floyd Rose Locking Tremolo to be DIY retrofitted. The obvious solution was to return the guitar, and exchange it for a Floyd Rose equipped Strat, for a small restocking cost. Neither Hell nor High Water could change his mind. 100's of concerned posts advising that Floyd Roses will not fit into standard Strat bodies did not deter him. He "project'd the hell" out of his new expensive guitar, and turned it into into a train wreck. He photo documented his efforts, and admitted at the end, it still "kinda works". But at least he was very proud of his handywork, and believed he had proved all advisors "incorrect".

Bodges, Fudges, Heath-Robinson's, String & Sealing Wax, Gaffer Tape & Cable Ties .... I really cannot fathom what goes through some people's minds. 😮

That's a lot of words to talk around NIH (Not Invented Here) problems.