Are referring to the 88 or the 61/73 version? I have the 61 key and it is the same high quality keybed that was on the Motif. It has excellent balance and response and one of the best semi weighted keybeds.

Keys feel cheap? No way, the balanced hammer on the 88 key version is one of the best, it never fails me, from Motif XS8 to XF8 to Montage 8. Solid and no clanky noises.

It's going to be hard to convince anyone that they are feeling the wrong thing. Feeling is subjective - and everyone is "right" even with opposing viewpoints.

For me, the 88-key is great. I prefer it over just about anything out there because the action seems responsive and not too heavy like I felt when trying out the MOXF8. However, that heavier feel may translate to a better build, more solid feel, and more in-line with your expectations.

I did not get the 88 because it was too heavy to justify bringing on gigs and up/down stairs. Even the 76 is about twice the weight I'd prefer.

I'm not sure if adding a MIDI controller will work for you or not - one that has more of the feel you are looking for. It may be too much "stuff" and cost.

Ultimately, you'll need to decide on what works for you - and the keybeds available may drive you elsewhere. It's difficult to please everyone - but also keep in mind that a break-in period to internalize the feel of the new keyboard may be necessary.

Sorry for not being more clear in my description. I'm comparing the Montage 8 to the CP4 Stage, which I hold as the the crown jewel when it comes to keybeds. I just think it is strange that the Montage 8 doesn't have the very best keys from Yamaha. In its current form it feels more like the CP40, which is less responsive than the CP4.

Right now I have the Nord Piano, which I want to replace with something with better audio. The keys on the Nord is not that great either. If I had a bigger budget I would go for the CP4 + Montage 6, but that would really put a dent in my saving.

Michael wrote:
I had chance to spend some time with the CP4 Stage and the keys really blew me away. Do you think we'll see an updated version in the future with wooden keys?

black keys of cp4 are plastic, too.

Yes, but they feel more "responsive" on the CP4. I don't know what word I'm looking for to describe it.
On the CP4 a key goes faster from pressed to its up position, while the CP40 feels more sluggish. The Montage feels more like the CP40.

I guess the material is secondary for me. I wrote wooden keys, because that was the material used on the CP4. Maybe Yamaha has similar keys that feel just as responsive even if they are plastic.

I'm not up on my keyboards (could look it up, but I've got to run) - I remember the cheaper CP series had more sounds than the more expensive one. The more expensive one was more piano focused while the less expensive one brought in more general purpose sounds in addition to the piano.

If a keyboard is essentially just trying to be a piano and not a swiss army knife - then the keys can be finely tuned to respond more like a piano. For something that plays everything from a piano to an organ and drums and everything squeeky noises - feeling like a piano may not be the best all-around choice. Something between a piano and a synth is likely the best target feel - even if they /could/ make a more piano-like action.

However, when you say less sluggish - well, I'm all for that. I thought the Montage represented the least sluggish fully weighted keyboard I had played in a while. Maybe the CP4 is "better" - I'm not sure if the travel is less with a more heavy feel - same feel with less travel - or lighter feel and less travel.

When shooting out the speed of response on the 88 vs. the RH3 (Korg) - I could, using 2 fingers on the same key, tap out a faster repeated note on the Montage vs. RH3.

Didn't have a CP4 to compare it to. Certainly, the recovery time of the Montage8's keys are in a high class.

There are other considerations like overall weight which may be a deciding factor in the keybed used. The Montage8 is overweight as it is. If the CP4 type keybed would reduce the weight and still be a great fully weighted keyboard - I'm all for it. But if it adds weight -- it's good Yamaha stuck with the very capable keybed available today in the 8.

You are probably right about the weight. My guess is that the graded hammer action keys with wood from the CP4 would add more weight, and as you mentioned the Montage is quite heavy already.

I guess it's a matter of compromises. My preferred piano would give me the keys I want, but I long for the sound capabilities of the Montage. I will have to spend more time with the Montage and get used to the keys. I nearly wish I never laid my hands on a CP4 first, since the keys on the Montage is already better than those on my Nord Piano. 🙂

The CP4 Stage is designed to be principally a piano, so quite naturally, it has the Natural Wood, triple sensor action that make it our top-of-the-line pro slab piano. For playing piano sounds it will be hard to beat.

The Montage 8, by contrast, is designed to be principally a music synthesizer, piano is just one of many sounds it does extremely well. It's designed to be a next level music synthesizer.

The obvious answer for you is to get both. I know several players who have decided this is the obvious 'best of both worlds' solutions. But just as obvious, this will not always be a practical solution for everyone. And not just from the monetary view, ... There's logistics.

Yes, please do spend time playing the keyboards before you decide. One is a Keyboard, the other is a Synth. Coming soon to this site is a series of articles that defines the significant differences between keyboard types. You also need to weigh how often you play "acoustic piano" as a sound, because while 88 piano weighed keys is great for piano sounds, it does not help you articulate piccolo lines, or perform a B3 riff, etc. Don't let piano dominate your decision if it is only 20% of how your going to be using this instrument.

It's going to be a personal choice, one only you can make.

Btw- Graded Hammer action of keyboards like the CP40 or MOXF8 actually weigh less overall than the Balanced Hammer action found in the Montage. In the Balanced Hammer action all keys offer the same resistance across the board (the weights in the keys), as you ascend the scale on a Graded Hammer action the resistance lessens (gets lighter). So overall the Graded Hammer action adds less overall weight to the resulting keyboard.

Good 88 note key beds are perceived as good for more reasons than just the weighting of the action. In my years at Yamaha, I've learned/observed exactly what goes into keyboard actions... And while it still all comes down to personal taste, nothing (and I mean nothing) is by chance. Yamaha studies keys, key beds, response times, velocity curves, etc, to a degree that would stagger the mind. And while there is no guarantee that you will like it, it's not because it's "cheap", it's just not your cup of tea...

What does not exist, at this time, is a Graded Hammer action with Aftertouch. Now if you don't know what Aftertouch is or you never use it, this is of no concern to you. Piano players don't use Aftertouch - it's a synth thing. However, the Balanced Hammer action (as found on the Motif XF8/Montage 8) features Aftertouch. Aftertouch, is something you'll find on synthesizers, not on slab pianos.

Action is very personal. All Yamaha keyboards feature a way to adjust the response of the tone engine to your input (velocity) - the so called Velocity Curves greatly influence your perception of how the sound "feels"

The fact that you walked up and the CP4 Stage feels so right, is the result of lots of R&D (thanks for noticing, by the way) and is also a wee bit serendipitous, as the "Normal" curve is called that because 'most' piano players will find this response to be appropriate. But had you been a heavy-handed or a very light player, you may have had a different reaction.

A really good (qualified) sales associate would know how to show you the global Velocity Curve adjustments... They make that much difference in initial impressions on the instrument. In fact, you can't real like or dislike any action until you adjust velocity curve. IMHO.

Beyond this global adjustment, each individual program can be adjusted to a very high degree to respond timbrally to your touch... These parameters go very deep, and as you can imagine, they go way, way deeper on the Synthesizer.

Synthesizer - for those who enjoy a good amount of DIY (Do It Yourself) when it comes to making, building or simply tweaking sounds.
Stage Piano - for those who enjoy recalling great programs and playing them. And while you can edit to a degree, it is no where's near as deep as the synthesizer.

Hope that helps. Get both! YOLO! 🙂

That's a great way to explain it.

CP4-Montage 6 combination would be awesome IMHO.

How much flexibility would you have if you used the CP4 as a MIDI controller for the Montage 6?

Would you be able to make each part in a performance available to be controlled by either Montage 6 keyboard or CP4 keyboard?

I would imagine you could have incredible splits/layers/weighted/synth, etc.

Pardon me if this is discussed in another thread.

All the best,

LK