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Accuracy of Motif XF projects imported to Montage?

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 Fess
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Hey Montage users, I am hoping I can import my Motif XF projects into Montage including user samples. Does it work smoothly? Since Montage doesn't have a sequencer how do the MIDI tracks get allocated in Montage when importing? Has anyone done this?

Thanks a lot.

 
Posted : 21/04/2017 3:47 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Hey Montage users, I am hoping I can import my Motif XF projects into Montage including user samples. Does it work smoothly? Since Montage doesn't have a sequencer how do the MIDI tracks get allocated in Montage when importing? Has anyone done this?

Yes I have.
Smoothly? Well, not as smoothly as going from a Motif to another Motif, no, but doable.

Here are the details:

All 1350+ Voices from the Motif XF can be found in the Montage. They appear as Single Part Performances in Montage - and form the backbone of the sound set of the Montage. There is Voice, Waveform and Arpeggio compatibility.

One Mode Montage
The Performance is the only mode in Montage. To understand how this is different from the Motif XF: A Performance can consist of from one to sixteen Parts. (technically speaking, there is no separate VOICE mode). A 16 Part setup would be used when sequencing with a DAW, for example. Or when you need extremely quick access with seamless switching between lots of instruments. In such a Multi Part setup each Part is individually accessed by the [PART SELECT] buttons.

A Performance can also be a combination of Parts (as the Perf on the XF, but this time as many as 8 Parts and 8 Arpeggiators are available for simultaneous play). This is referred to as "KBD CTRL" (Keyboard Control). These KBD CTRL Performances can be from one to eight Parts and use the power of the Motion Control Engine to dynamically control when a particular Part is used. The eight Part slots can contain a complete instrument, or just some particular component used in building an instrument sound. These KBD CTRL Parts can be assigned an Arpeggiator or can be controlled via a Motion Sequence (Controller-Arp).

This allows for Montage to engage more than 8 Elements (Waveforms) when constructing an AWM2 sound. An 18 Element acoustic piano or 22 Element string orchestra with more than 55 Controller Source/Destination Assignments, provide the kind of detail and nuance that make Montage more of the good things that XS/XF were about... more expression.

You might have a horn section with five Parts: Part 1 is saxes and brass, Part 2 is the horn section doing a rip, Part 3 is a horn section doing a dropoff, Part 4 could be the super high brass, and Part 5 might be a shake and/or sforzando attack. Each Part is the equivalent of a full XF VOICE, and is massive in its fullness and detail. Additionally, each Part can be individually addressed via its relationship to the Controllers, AssignKnobs, Articulation buttons, and the Super Knob to form a horn section Performance with a wide pallet of extremely expressive sonic capabilities. This allows the keyboard performer who's tasked to "cover" doing a horn section, an arsenal of realistic articulations that can bring the section to life within a single Program. You can actually "perform" the role of horn section. Bringing the saxes forward, transitioning smoothly to the trombones, bring in the high octave trumpets, controlling realistic brass swells...

The multi Part KBD CTRL Performances can be routed Out on multiple buses for recording and are all about realtime playing/performing.

When wishing to use the Montage as a sixteen Part multi-timbal tone generator (as you did with XF), you should start by using the Initialized "Multi/GM" Performance template:
From the HOME screen
Press [CATEGORY SEARCH]
Select "INIT" > select "Multi/GM"

There is compatibility between Motif XF and Montage, it is limited to Voice data, Waveform data, Arpeggio data, only.

Each Motif XF VOICE is converted to a Montage "Part", this includes the User Waveforms recorded to the XF's Integrated Sampling Sequencer, as well as those used in musical instrument emulations. Those recorded using "sample +note" or "slice+seq" will be listed in the Montage USER Waveform Bank.

Not directly compatible between XF and Montage are the XF Song, Pattern, Pattern Chain, Mixing setups, Master mode settings, etc.
You can, of course, move the MIDI data of a Song or Pattern to the Montage SONG Play/Rec using Standard MIDI File format (.mid)...

Montage features a Performance Recorder - it is not a sequencer (where you record one track after another) it is designed to capture a multi Part interaction with the synthesizer, to sketch out ideas - these can be drag and dropped directly from the Montage Song Folder to your computer via the USB cable. You can also LOAD and .mid file to the Montage Play/Rec function. It can load on Song at a time, but automatically saves it in the Song Folder.

You will need to rebuild your Mixing setups... there is no help from the technology here.

If you have the "Yamaha Motif XF Editor", it can help you with this task. Yes, this is a major task, but one that you would need to do anyway because balancing the newly substituted Montage sounds will most likely require your attention. But once you realize that it's another opportunity to remix your song, you embrace the work. You windup improving the sound. Naturally, how much work will be required will vary greatly depending on your composition and its original construction.

The Editor can help you see the XF Mixer and you just need to duplicate the Mixing screen in Montage. Yes, this can be a lot of work, but you will undoubtedly conclude, (as I did), it is less work than doing it all again from scratch. Besides, listening to it come back together as a new Montage song is refreshing/rejuvenating - as Montage sounds seem to just jump out at you!

It's also a great way to learn to navigate the Montage as you begin to find your way around - you'll begin to recognize the similarities Montage has with the Motif XF. Once you've done your first one, you will have learned where the parameters you're familiar with from the XF are now located within Montage.

When you Load the .X3A file to Montage, the Waveforms you created will be installed in Montage and found in the Montage's DATA UTILITY > Waveform Folder. Any User Arpeggio will be found in the Arpeggio Folder.

You will need to manually build a Montage Part to house that Waveform -in the Part number that corresponds to the User sample Track. This is pretty simple because the default settings are set for playing back your ISS Waveform. You just need to select it and then trigger it with the Note-On event created by the XF's Integrated Sampling Sequencer.

You will load the sequence data from the .Mid file - then reunite the Waveform with the Note data that is designed to trigger it.

I've successfully ported over all types of XF Sequence data. Sampled Voices, Samples to the Sequencer, Slice Waveforms, etc. all transfer just fine.

I will not sugar coat it, it is a bit of work; so if you are expecting it to be as smooth as opening a GENERAL MIDI file, well it's a far cry from being that smooth. You will be re-voicing a Sequence... as if you purchased an entirely different synthesizer (which, of course, you did!) If you were doing it for someone else, you could/would charge for it... because there are creative decisions to be made, and it does require a keen ear and a good deal of concentration.

If you get stuck, you can post back here. I've tried to explore all the possibilities (but that's not always possible)

If you no longer have your Motif XF, not to worry, - if you have ALL data files (.X3A) and your using Cubase w/XF Editor, you should be able to extract every bit of data you need to begin reconstruction. Cubase can extract the MIDI and (ISS) Audio for you.

For example:
From your .x3a file, use Cubase to "Import Motif XF Song"
This will give you an overview of everything... you can start by rerouting, Track by Track, to the Montage.

 
Posted : 22/04/2017 2:57 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

Bad mister ... you ROCK!!!

 
Posted : 24/04/2017 8:02 am
 Fess
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks a lot Bad Mister. I really appreciate your clear and concise instruction:)

Oh yeah, I still have my Motif XF. That ain't goin' anywhere.

 
Posted : 25/04/2017 12:23 am
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Bad Mister. As always you da man. I have the motif XS. Can I assume the same process and instructions you listed here? I use Cubase and the motif XS editor vst. Also, I am selling my XS. Is there any value to keeping it until all transition is complete? Or is it moot as long as I have all my song data loaded in the editor? Thanks!

 
Posted : 30/04/2017 11:48 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

You will need all your data saved in a Motif XS ALL data file.
Cubase can import the information from the ALL data using the Editor.
Cubase has the ability to import a Motif XS Song from the ALL data file.

Is there any value to until all transition is complete? If you still have it, do one, then you'll know exactly what you need to do. You are reconstructing/rebuilding your setup. If you created custom Arpeggios you may additionally want to save an All Arpeggio (.X0G) file.

 
Posted : 01/05/2017 3:36 am
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Perfect. I saved and transferred everything last night. Worked great. Thanks again!

 
Posted : 01/05/2017 1:29 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

I like doing things the hard way, so I would keep the XS until the performances are entered into Montage that I want to keep. Since it's not fully automated it would give me a warm fuzzy to have the original screens on-hand to go through and I'm generally faster with equipment I've used for years than new procedures. But if the more automated approach is working well for you - use that. A few users have pointed out some corner case issues with different parts which reproduce previous gen voices - quirks that are fixable - and so I think in this off chance you run into something similar having the old board helps to "A-B" the sound. You may not be that picky - and really, I've evolved since some of my early carry-forward exactness.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 02/05/2017 1:06 am
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