Hello Mr: Spock - I've noticed that merely changing the category while the arp is playing (or stopping the arp, changing the category, and then re-starting the arp) has no effect at all on the arp. I haven't got round to figuring this out yet, but I agree there are many potential Wowzers if you can change the instrument used by the arp. It may be the arps can't change, but that seems unlikely?

Hi Mr. Spock,
Thanks for the question. Seems your memory of the Motif XF is a little bit fuzzy, but hopefully the answer below will help straighten out both your memory of XF and what's on offer with Montage. Remember, Montage is based on Motif but is not a Motif.

The Motif XF lets you change The sound (voice) of the Arps while the Arp countinues
To play without stoping .

Is this possible on the Montage ?

Yes.

The Motif XF also can put a sound ( voice ) with the Arp you pick , so you can hear what the Arp sounds like .
I believe this feature is call " voice with arp " .

Then you can change the sound if you want all while the same arp is playing , this is great for workflow because you can go through many sounds
very fast until you find the one you want that goes with the arp . This is very important ,

"Voice with Arp", is a feature in the Motif XF that did the opposite. It allowed you to select the Arpeggio Phrase and when you did, along came the original Voice used to create the phrase. It was for moving through Arp phrases rapidly particularly when auditioning specialty phrases, like the Hybrid and Velocity Zoned phrases, MegaVoice arp phrases, specialty kit drum arp phrases, and the like.

"VOICE WITH ARP" take it literally, the Voice used comes along with the Arpeggio selection. This way, if you recalled a Hip Hop drum Phrase it would recall the original kit used to create it. If you recalled a Percussion arp phrase, the special Voice used to create it came along. If you selected a Mega Voice Guitar or Bass Arpeggio Phrase the Mega a Voice Guitar Voice or Bass Voice was automatically selected. And if you selected a Hybrid/Velocity Zoned Arp, a Motif XF Voice mapped to use it came along with it.

If your goal, as you say, is to "go through many sounds very fast until you find the one you want that goes with the arp" that certainly is the opposite of what VOICE WITH ARP does in the Motif XF.

Perhaps you are mixing up the "Voice with Arp", where the Voice comes along with Arpeggio you select, with "Parameter with Voice" where parameters associated with a particular Voice (like Arp phrases) were automatically brought along with the selection of the Voice. This would allow you to recall a specific specialty Voice and the Arps associated with it in Voice mode would be copied to the Performance or Mixing setup.

Clearly though, you have already found the Arp phrase and are looking for sound that goes with the arp, correct?

Navigate to the Part's Arpeggio > Individual screen and set the arp you wish to try out with different sounds.
Now you can swap different programs to occupy that Part slot - the selection of a new Part can either be made by bringing the Arps associated with that Part along, if "Parameter with Part" is active (green) for Arp/MS. Or no, if you opt out on the setting.

When assigning arpeggios in a Multi Part Montage program you can opt to bring along the associated Arps, Motion Sequences, and/or Scenes, or keep those you have currently setup. You will find the option on the PART [CATEGORY SEARCH] screen. Highlight the PART NAME prior to pressing [CATEGORY SEARCH] > along the bottom of the Part Search screen you will see "Param. with Part" > "Arp/MS", "Scene"
When the boxes are highlighted green selecting a Part changes your current Arp. If you want to try the sound without changing your selected Arp, simply deselect the appropriate box.

This becomes hugely important with those special motion sequence type Arps in the XF called Hybrd (comb , zone, Z..Pad ) because only certain voices can be played by them to get the full effect and with out voice to arp you would probably never know those voices could do that magical stuff .
I see Montage has these same type magical Arps but without voice to arp we could be missing out on many greats sounds .

Montage does not have "Voice with Arp" because there is no Voice mode. Here you seem to have flip-flopped and want the Part to bring along its specialty Arp... Which as you now know it does, you have to "opt out" (turn "Param with Part" Off) if you don't want the specialty Hybrid/Velocity Zoned Arp to come along.

The "Parameter with Part" option appears whenever you using Part - Category Search

Can this be done on the Montage which has even more Arps (10,000 !) ?

Yes, and yes it does! And soon you will be able to create 256 of your own, per User bank.

Hope that helps.

GREAT inside scoop on the arpeggio engine Bad Mister. i will say one cool feature i believe would be pretty helpful on Montage - would be to utilize that 'AUDITION' button ! For Arps! what i would love to see is when i'm in the Category Search for a Part, Part1 - Arp1 - Category Search page, and I'm scrolling through the Arps,
i'd like to select one, say FC_Cool Funk (in the Guitar->Funk category), and be able to press 'AUDITION' and have Montage call up the original sound used to program that Arp! which would be COOL bc I could then figure out what type of sound that is actually for! right now- I'm using 'FM Mute E.Gt' and some of the Arps play crazy high notes which makes the Arp sound horrible, this FC_Cool Funk sounds terrible with FM Mute E.Gt since it plays those super high notes in the arp.
If we could very quickly audition what it's supposed be doing, right from this page, would be Awesome!

Also, i'm going through all the Montage docs Yamaha has provided us, and being they are mostly PDF, i feel i'm missing something. In the Montage Data List doc,
where does it describe all the special characters in the ARP Names? for example, i don't see anything describing what 'FC_Cool Funk' ... what does the 'FC' mean?
I see a lot of this kind of naming, but no reference or abbreviation list to go along? or am I missing that? I see in the reference manual they tell us with the _N and _C mean, but i'm seeing way more abbreviations than just those 2.

also, you are talking about Mega Voices.. what are those? i have come from the Motif ES and I don't believe that had those type of voices. Can we select those voices from Category Search using attributes on Montage? or how exactly do we locate those sounds on the Montage?

thanks!

GREAT inside scoop on the arpeggio engine Bad Mister. i will say one cool feature i believe would be pretty helpful on Montage - would be to utilize that 'AUDITION' button ! For Arps! what i would love to see is when i'm in the Category Search for a Part, Part1 - Arp1 - Category Search page, and I'm scrolling through the Arps,
i'd like to select one, say FC_Cool Funk (in the Guitar->Funk category), and be able to press 'AUDITION' and have Montage call up the original sound used to program that Arp! which would be COOL bc I could then figure out what type of sound that is actually for! right now- I'm using 'FM Mute E.Gt' and some of the Arps play crazy high notes which makes the Arp sound horrible, this FC_Cool Funk sounds terrible with FM Mute E.Gt since it plays those super high notes in the arp.
If we could very quickly audition what it's supposed be doing, right from this page, would be Awesome!

It's not my thing to discourage any suggestions but it seems you don't quite get the concept of Arps. They are chord intelligent in most cases. Once you highlight them YOU can audition them with the chord qualities and timing that you desire. If an Arp phrase requires a specific Part, it is listed in the DATA LIST booklet.

I doubt very much there is any more room for 10,000 audition phrases... So don't hold out on that Audition feature 🙂
To audition an Arp phrase select it and play with it!

Please recognize simply holding a whole note chord is not the only way to "play with Arps" remember they respond and interact with you and how you choose to trigger them. Particular musical phrase Arps can be used in their entirety or just portions of the phrase can be used, depending on how long you hold down the triggering chord. You can fashion different musical parts from the same arpeggio phrase depending on how you "play" it!

what does the 'FC' mean?

The first letter is typically the type of arp phrase. You'll find first letters such as:
M = a Main Section (Verse, Chorus, etc.)
F = a Fill-in
B = a Break
I = Intro
E = Ending

These Sections are similar to those you'd find on a Yamaha Arranger keyboard, where you have MAIN Sections A-B-C-D, you have Fill-in phrases, Breaks, Intros and Endings... The phrases are available for selection here as individual items. Just because a drum groove is listed as a Fill-in does not preclude you from using it as your Main section... The letters are just FYI. But now that you know, you will probably restrict your thinking. But you don't have to, some times a Fill-in is exactly the right thing for some other purpose.

Yes, if you assemble phrases with the same name and Section, across several instruments, they will make a coherent groove. In other words, the "Cool Funk" drums, bass, organ etc, when used together will make a coherent musical statement. But the phrases are purposefully listed individually so that you can piece them together into new and endless variations..

The second letter is typically the complexity of the phrase: A, being less complex, D, being most complex. "Energetic" would be another word for "complex". In a phrase called "MA" expect to hear the fundamental groove, laid down straight ahead, in a "MB" expect that the drummer has "opened up" the groove a bit ...perhaps they've gone to the bell of the ride cymbal. And so on. Use your ears, you will hear the complexity change in similarly named Phrases with successively later second letters.

"FA", for example is a rather simple Fill-in leading to or back to a (Main) Section A.
So "FC" would be a Fill-in leading to a (Main) C Section... So expect it to be a fairly elaborate Fill, in comparison to "FA"

The Arp phrases with a bracketed [Mg] are special "Mega" phrases for specific Guitar and specific Bass PARTs. (See Data List). They use special velocity and key mapping to retrieve specific sample articulations, they must be used with these specific sounds for the mapping to make sonic sense.

Every time I change a voice playing a arp , the arp stops and has to be re-trigged to start agin .
Workflow killer .

Motif XF did not do this .
Motif XF lets you change every sound while the same arp continuously plays , workflow winner .

Mr. Spock wrote:

Every time I change a voice playing a arp , the arp stops and has to be re-trigged to start agin .
Workflow killer .

Motif XF did not do this .
Motif XF lets you change every sound while the same arp continuously plays , workflow winner .

EDIT: Sorry, jumped the gun on the response. This (below, "Part 2: Backup") covers changing an arp while keeping the PART the same, not different PARTs while using same arp. ... back to the Montage. I'm leaving "Part 2" in even though it doesn't apply - as maybe others will be helped.

Part 1: Same Performance, Different Waveforms (changing waveforms), arp continues to play

Since "Voice" is a legacy concept - we now have performances - and arps do not carry forward from performance to performance - you'll need to stick with one performance and audition using different waveforms. Without external hardware - I'm not quickly able to come up with a workaround that allows the arp to continue while changing out a PART. I thought perhaps there may be a MIDI method of having one part play another part - but I'm not up on my MIDI usage to try that. What I have here is changing an element - which is not exactly the same as changing a part - but it's something.

1) Follow steps 1-4 of Part 2 to setup to ready the arp for continuous play
2) Strike a note or chord to start the arp. At this point, you are in PART editing. When you strike a note, you will see the 8 individual elements at the bottom of the screen and a bright green dot for those elements that are being "played" by the arpeggio. Hopefully only one is playing or if multiple are playing - there's one that is always on and can be representative.
3) Still focused on the bottom line of the touchscreen, press the "All" box which will show a list of all elements and the waveform used.
4) Select an element which matches the one which was most active, then use DATA DIAL (jog wheel) to scroll through different waveforms while arp is being held.

Part 2: Backup

I do not have a Motif XF or earlier Motif to compare to - but the Montage can be made to "hold" an arpeggio.

From the touchscreen:

1) [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) - my usual "reset to a known starting point"
2) Select a part: You will see the part(s) with arps on the screen with a blue box "Arp ON" Use touchscreen to click on the part name and then click "Edit" on touchscreen, or press Number A [#] where # is one of the parts to select, then press the [EDIT] button
3) Touchscreen: - press "Arpeggio" -> "Common" menu buttons which are on left side
4) Touchscreen: under "Hold" section, you will see selections for "Sync Off", "Off", and "On". Select "On" (should be green hilighted) to make arps continue to play after letting go of keyboard

Above should do what you want. Spelling out the rest (auditioning)

5) Picking up where 4 left off
Touchscreen: press "Arpeggio" -> "Individual"
6) From this screen, you should see one of the arpeggios highlighted in green (Arp 1-8). For this arp number, touch the category or sub or name area of the hilighted arp to select it. This brings up a popup menu (an arrow at top "<", "Search", and "Number"). You can dismiss the popup by pressing "<" (left arrow) but the instructions will work without dismissing. Depends if popup bothers you or not.
7) Press a note or notes to trigger the arp. No need to hold the notes as arp "Hold" setting (steps 1-4) covers that.
8) Use DATA DIAL (jog wheel) to scroll through arps. Do not adjust dial too fast (and expect a change) since change in arp does not instantly change the arp - it lets the currently playing arp complete its phrase first. However, do adjust the dial quickly if you want to skip past arps from the current playing one to a new target one.

Note - for another idea is to use BM's suggestion of changing the PART, turn the "Param. With Part" OFF for "Arp/MS", and use a piece of folded up paper to hold down one or more notes as you change the PART (press key down, stick paper between adjacent keys).

This is working for me and maybe overall the best solution to do what you want for now.

There are some exceptions when the ARP stops and I haven't figured out what makes one out of every 20 (unscientific "average") or so PARTs stop the ARP vs. the other 19 that do not do this.