The three templates in the Factory set are just suggestions for setups for the most common practices. Normal MIDI recording, ARP (MIDI recording), Audio Recording. They are customizable, namable and storable.

"Standalone" is just the Montage without connection to anything external.

"Audio Record on DAW" (factory set) turns DIRECT MONITOR OFF - as explained in the article and is not the same as Standalone. you are set to monitor audio post (after) it traverses the DAW. This is your choice. Some people process the audio in the DAW - some people wait to add DAW processing until after they have recorded audio. There is no one way to work.

If you are finding that "Standalone" and "Audio Rec on DAW" are the same, and are not hearing doubling - it could be that you just have not identified the doubling. The AUDIO SIGNAL FLOW diagram should clearly show you how doubling would occur.

Please see the article on the AUDIO REC ON DAW Template: https://yamahasynth.com/resources/cubase-setup-guide-workflow-audio-rec-on-daw

well, that may be so, the diagram suggests doubling but if I don´t hear anything then it´s not there and my recording is fine 😉 I dont´even have latency, so I´m happy... But ok, I can create a template set to "all parts to main out". But will it really make a difference if what you hear is what you get?

as far as auditioning, that no longer works with the new firmware, right? the audition field is no longer there when adding parts. it has been replaced by listening to the original versus the added sound (and having to play something to hear something). I don´t really think that´s an improvement.

If the doubling doesn't bother you (some people don't recognize it, but it's there) fine, it's just a monitoring thing. One path goes direct to the outputs, the other is the signal that passes through the computer... it only exists during recording, not during playback. I highly recommend you "teach" your ears to listen for doubling during your recording- you'll hear it more on things like cymbals and snare drums.

As I mentioned not everyone hears it or is bothered by it, but it can be misleading when trying to accurately assess what your instrument and your recording really sound like. It does not get printed twice, it's simply a listening (monitoring) issue during recording.

Questions:

1: what template to use when "rendering" midi tracks to audio? stay in "midi rec to daw" or switch to "audio rec to daw"?

You would customize Quick Setup 3 for this purpose. "Audio Rec on DAW"

Once you have assembled the MIDI Tracks you wish to render as audio, you need to make your Output selections. No one template would or could serve every possibility. The Output Assignments you make can vary greatly Project to Project based on your instrument selections. This template is very "generic".

The Montage allows you access to 32 audio outputs from the tone generator to the computer. These can be configured in odd/even stereo pairs, or as individual outputs, as you may require. The template just simply assigns each Part to its own stereo Output (pairs)

The "Audio Record on DAW" factory template defaults so the Parts can be discreetly recorded to separate Audio Tracks.
Part 1 Output via the Main L&R
Part 2 Output via USB 1&2
Part 3 Output via USB 3&4
.
.
.
Part 16 Output via USB 29&30

If this is not what you want to do, you must customize it to your particular need. For example, say you want to simply create a stereo mix, (and not assign Parts to separate Audio Tracks), you would assign each Part that you use to the "Main L&R" Output.

You would customize Quick Setup 3 for this purpose.

2: what template to use when playing back an imported midi song (from montage connect)? "standalone"? and when rendering an imported song to audio?

"MIDI Rec on DAW" would be used anytime you are working with MIDI data. When importing a SONG, use "MIDI Rec on DAW"
When you are ready to render data to Audio, you must setup your Output Assignments according to the requirements of your Parts - it can be different according to the instruments you've selected. But you would start with "Audio Rec on DAW" and customize the Part Outputs as you require.

3: what is the "multi GM" performance really for? how is it any different than another performance in its routings? when building a multipart performance, why would I want to start with the "multi GM" and tediously erase 15 piano parts instead of starting with a normal, empty initialized performance?

The INIT Performance template that is "Multi/GM" is for when you are using the Montage as 16-Part multi-timbral tone engine. This is the equivalent to the Song/Pattern MIXING setup in the Motif-series. If you are playing back a SMF (Standard MIDI File) that is GM compatible this is the default starting point for GM Reset. By including a template for GM setup it avoids an issue where the file author does not use both MSB/LSB Bank Select commands properly.

It accommodates your typical 16-part multi-timbal MIDI configuration where one Part occupies one MIDI channel and uses one track. Use this when sequencing with a DAW.

In general, you select the Init Performance template that most closely serves your needs.

4: can you really only audition when in general category search mode but not when adding parts? (it doesn´t work when I try).

As far as I know, the AUDITION feature has not changed. You can AUDITION any factory Performance. AUDITION is accessed via the dedicated [AUDITION] button, or on the "Performance Category Search" screen.

Just a side note - when local monitoring is turned on (the Montage makes noise) - the doubling will occur when your DAW's (PC's/MAC's) audio output - which is not Montage - is turned on and making noise. If you elect to turn off the computer's sound output while the Montage's local monitoring is ON - then doubling will also not occur.

Wanted to include a more global view that wasn't so Montage-centric.

thank you Bad Mister.
unfortunately one can only overwrite the "midi-arp-audio-to daw" presets but not save new ones. so, if I want to assign all the channels of a multi performance that makes up one single sound (like the piano that has several parts) to just one audio output, then it´s easier to record it in standalone mode, since I cannot save a new template and would have to keep overwriting templates all the time according to needs.
if doubling is only a monitoring issue then I won´t worry about it too much if I can´t even hear it. I´ll try to listen for it thow.

Gabi wrote:

thank you Bad Mister.
unfortunately one can only overwrite the "midi-arp-audio-to daw" presets but not save new ones. so, if I want to assign all the channels of a multi performance that makes up one single sound (like the piano that has several parts) to just one audio output, then it´s easier to record it in standalone mode, since I cannot save a new template and would have to keep overwriting templates all the time according to needs.
if doubling is only a monitoring issue then I won´t worry about it too much if I can´t even hear it. I´ll try to listen for it thow.

I'm sorry, there are three customizable templates. You create a template for how you work - most of the time.

QUICK SETUP 1 currently MIDI Rec on DAW
QUICK SETUP 2 currently Arp Rec on DAW
QUICK SETUP 3 currently Audio Rec on DAW

The "Standalone" simply resets the instrument for working without a computer.

You can and should hear the doubling, even a few milliseconds difference between Direct and the computer Return is immediately audible when played simultaneously! You need to teach yourself to hear it. It's there. Again, on snare drums and cymbals, piano, you'll hear a slight flanger effect.

Cubase will indicate how much latency in milliseconds out to 3 decimal places.

If you don't believe it's there here's a test. Go to DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > VST AUDIO SYSTEM > Montage (Mac) or Yamaha Steinberg USB (PC) > open the Control Panel > set the number of samples to 2048

This will increase and greatly EXAGGERATE the time for the computer to process and return the audio. You will see and hear the Input and Output Latency increase. Step by step, decrease the number of Samples... listening and comparing as you go.

You will begin to see why many people prefer to Monitor "Direct". Remember it is your choice. One reason to monitor the signal post traversing the computer is if you need to process the signal during record... if not you may wish to Turn DIRECT MONITOR = ON in the Montage, while Muting the Audio Track in the DAW.

CUSTOMIZE THE TEMPLATES
All three templates are customizable, can be named and stored. I have customized my Audio Record on DAW, because I rarely record each Part to its own discreet stereo audio Track (that's the factory default for the Audio template) I've reprogrammed mine so each Part goes to the Main L&R, instead. I tend to use this more often in day-to-day use.
And I've renamed it "St Rec on DAW" and stored it to my Montage.

If I need a different configuration for Audio, I'm now comfortable customizing the setup on a per Project basis. Take your time, you may not even have a favorite way to work yet. When you do, then create your own templates. But learn what they do, and how the different settings work so you get comfortable making routing decisions whenever you require.

Ok. I tried with increasing the samples. There is really no doubling. Only if I click on the monitor icon on the track do I hear an echo (doubling). But I don´t need to click on the monitor icon in standalone mode. I hear exactly what I record without it. I only need to click monitor when in "audio to daw" mode or everything is mute.
I can hear what you mean, but since there´s no need for the monitor this is not an issue in standalone mode.
(I have also recorded several audio tracks in a row like that (track monitor always off) and had no latency.) So, probably doing it wrong and clueless about the routing, but no problems is all I´m saying.

But I have other issues... I am recording a performance with several parts and scenes. With "arp rec to daw". Now, when playing this back from the start, I need to press scene 1 because it does not jump to scene 1 automatically when I go back to start - and then it plays back everything wrong. Unfortunately, the Montage consistently freezes after a while and I can no longer press the scenes. Why would that happen?

I did not really understand yet what mode I need to use to play back my midi recording. Can I stay in the "arp rec" mode when playing back or do I need to go to "audio rec" or what? I am doing smoething wrong because the montage will not allow me to press the scenes anymore.

I´m working on this track while recording, getting inspired, deleting parts, copying parts to build a song structure and so on, so I hope I do not have to switch around between recording and listening modes all the time.

We can help you to KNOW for sure what is happening, if you agree to work with us.

Ok. I tried with increasing the samples. There is really no doubling. Only if I click on the monitor icon on the track do I hear an echo (doubling). But I don´t need to click on the monitor icon in standalone mode. I hear exactly what I record without it. I only need to click monitor when in "audio to daw" mode or everything is mute.

Of course there is no doubling if you choose not to "click on the monitor icon on the track". That is the point we are making. There are two signal paths for the Montage to send audio to the speakers. The first is the normal path... but remember the Montage is acting as your computer's audio interface. Clicking on that Monitor icon on the track is EXACTLY how the computer is outputting audio to the Montage as audio interface.

Your statement is like saying "there is no light in the room until I turn the light switch on." Absolutely, correct. The electricity is delivered to the house, but you do have to activate it! The computer in this case is receiving the audio from Montage via USB but in order for the computer to output it to speakers, you must click on that monitor icon.

The Montage sends audio DIRECT to the speakers AND via USB to Cubase. Cubase sends audio to the audio interface when you click on the monitor icon to send the audio to "speakers" via the audio interface (Montage). (The icon itself is a speaker).

Please read this again, until it makes sense. Your other questions, issues and problems will continue (freezes, and worse: crashes) if you continue to not understand these basic routing situations. You need to use the correct setup for things to work properly.

Let us know if this makes no sense, we'll try a different tactic.

Ok, I am, from now on, recording that way. No more standalone, and cubase track monitor on.
So, now... do I really have to click on the track monitor icon constantly between recording and listening back in order to hear something? That´s most annoying!

The thing about working with any professional piece of software or equipment, be it Cubase, or PhotoShop, or Excel, or the Montage for that matter, they are designed to be flexible and configurable. You simply have to meet them half way. You get to set your own "preferences" - that's what they're called and it's what they're for. How the transport behaves and is annoying to someone is exactly how another person likes to work. If you don't like how it is set, you can change it.

What may help
What you have to do when something is "annoying" is learn about the feature that controls that behavior. Here's how:
In Cubase go to "Preferences" > VST (Virtual Studio Technology) here you can set how your AUTO MONITORING preferences behave... "Tapemachine" makes playback more intuitive (less annoying, in your terms).

Because I cannot imagine what your settings are, I can only recommend spending a few minutes with Cubase documentation. I'm unaware of a setting which would cause you to have to click monitor icon to PLAYBACK a track, as that is NOT its purpose. You will want to setup to click the Monitor Speaker icon when you wish to monitor (hear) incoming signal (without having to actually be in RECORD). It allows you to monitor the signal that will be recorded... while in standby.

In this case when you want to monitor "live" input to the audio interface. Translation: when you want to hear yourself playing the Montage or you want to hear an A/D Input plugged into the Montage. Track output is elsewhere. In this initial monitor situation nothing has been recorded YET. The track is black at this point.

The track is routed (presumably) so the STEREO Out (from Cubase) is set to return to the audio interface (to the Montage speaker outputs: Main L&R). Once you record audio data to a track - that speaker icon is still controlling whether or not you are listening "live" input through the track.

The data on a track (is actual recorded audio) it goes directly to the output and to the speakers. No icon necessary to monitor the track. If you use "Tapemachine" I believe it automatically turns off - ready for playback.

As engineer, you get to choose your workflow. Annoying? That's totally dependent on how you setup to work.

Thank you, I will try the taperecorder setting.

Yes, the problem is that I don´t completely understand Cubase and am working with 2 DAWs. The other one is Samplitude. Unfortunately with that one I can´t set sync with the Montage up to work consistently... It does the weirdest things and drives me crazy... The problem may never be resolved because of useless manuals and if noone answers your question in the samplitude forum, well then, tough luck.

And als long as this doesn´t get resolved I will have to start a recording with one DAW and finish the mix with another DAW. Unnecessarily complicated, unfortunately.