Well, I certainly know what you are getting at, even if you've thrown every possibility into the question.

Let's start with, yes, the Montage can both Send or Receive clock. When working with an external sequencer you can pick which one is the master clock (sends clock information) and which one is the slave (follows clock information). That's the good news. The Montage and your external device will run in perfect synchronization, counting measures and beats the same. The Montage clock controls all tempo sensitive functions in the architecture, including the Arpeggiators (8).

If the Montage is set to slave to an external clock it will derive tempo from that device and all clocked function will reference that tempo.

The bad news, if you can call it that, is Arpeggios do not start automatically in response to a play (Start) button, they are activated when you touch the keyboard or a MIDI note-on event is sent to the tone generator. That touch must meet the requirements, note range and velocity range, as set by the Part parameters.

It is your responsibility to trigger the start of the arpeggio by playing the keys, same as you need to do when playing normally. Timing counts! Once you start (trigger) the key, the Arp will reference the tempo according to your clock settings.

Touch the tempo parameter on the top line of the screen Tom take the shortcut to the TEMPO screen.
Here you can set the Clock and Sync information for Montage.
Set MIDI SYNC = MIDI to make the Montage the slave to your sequencers clock.
CLOCK OUT is also found here if you wish to use the Montage as master clock.

Press [EXIT] to return to your Performance

Hint: Because Arp phrases are musically time sensitive, after pressing STOP, or pausing, get in the habit of resetting the ARP ON/OFF switch, toggle it Off-On.. This will ensure your Arp phrase is cued to the "top" (top of the phrase). If you trigger the Arp phrase a sixteenth note late, it will be in sync just a sixteenth note late. Not necessarily what you want, but perfectly offset.

It is your responsibility to play the notes on time. You have the ability to use a sort of Quantize for the Arp trigger notes when manually controlling chord Arps in real time. Arp Sync Quantize Value determines how the controlling key trigger information is used by the Arp engine.

From the Home screen:
Touch "Motion Control" > "Arpeggio"
Here you find the Sync Quantize Value for the start of Arp phrases.

Sync Quantize (Sync Quantize Value)
Determines the actual timing at which the next Arpeggio playback starts when you trigger it while the Arpeggio of multiple Parts is playing back. When set to “off,” the next Arpeggio starts as soon as you trigger it. The number indicates the clock.
Settings: Off, 60 (32nd note), 80 (16th note triplet), 120 (16th note), 160 (8th note triplet), 240 (8th note), 320 (1/4 note triplet),
480 (1/4 note)

This use case illustrates a musically inspired rationale for having MIDI messages (some finite number of hex values) as a destination parameter. Previously, I mentioned SysEx which would wrap F0/F7 around the list of finite hex values. However, I had thought that a more general - say 1-15 bytes as a destination would cover CC messages, transport controls, SysEx (limited to 13 values max between the start/end), etc. The thought would be maybe have a table of 16 user MIDI messages and add them to the destination list. Could allow for one value to be variable ("dd" for variable = 0-127) which would cover some range of commands requiring a single parameter.

A motion sequence, triggered by the same key that triggers the ARP would handle sending out the transport control in this example and the arp would start. Both should be in sync.

Adding this kind of feature is a "heavy lift" item - not expecting it. Just outlining how this request fits within the previous suggestion.

===================

Dealing with what you have:

Taking a look at the Cirklon manual, I see:

page 12-3 "If you enable record mode while the sequencer is not running, it will automatically start on receiving the first incoming note."

This seems like a method for synchronizing the first note played with the first downbeat of the first measure.

I know other products support waiting for the first note played to start the XYZ feature (whatever the product does) - so this is what I was searching for with the Cirklon. Might this help at least one portion of the problem?

Bad Mister wrote:

It is your responsibility to trigger the start of the arpeggio by playing the keys, same as you need to do when playing normally. Timing counts! Once you start (trigger) the key, the Arp will reference the tempo according to your clock settings.

Bingo , yes this is what I have been doing , if I'm on time it's perfect .
Makes me wonder about all the great musicians before midi , how many takes they had to do to record .

Ok so to be clear the arps don't send out start messages ?

Thanks BM excellent post as always ,
I've been doing that envelope follower trick with FM X from your other post with the musical energy going back in as the source , fascinating before I knew it , it was dark outside but thats another story .

Jason wrote:

A motion sequence, triggered by the same key that triggers the ARP would handle sending out the transport control in this example and the arp would start. Both should be in sync.

Adding this kind of feature is a "heavy lift" item - not expecting it. Just outlining how this request fits within the previous suggestion.

Yes that would be great !

===================

Dealing with what you have:

Taking a look at the Cirklon manual, I see:

page 12-3 "If you enable record mode while the sequencer is not running, it will automatically start on receiving the first incoming note."

This seems like a method for synchronizing the first note played with the first downbeat of the first measure.

I know other products support waiting for the first note played to start the XYZ feature (whatever the product does) - so this is what I was searching for with the Cirklon. Might this help at least one portion of the problem?

Wow thanks thats cool you checked out the Cirklon manual wasn't sure if anyone was familiar with that sequencer here in these parts .
Thanks thats a excellent idea I'm going to give it a try but it may be a lot of trail an error for me because I actually got a little something complex happening with my set up i didn't mention it because I didn't want to confuse my question to anyone .

So the short version is I have a midi situation where I placed the Cirklon in between Cubase 8.5 and the Montage that way I still have access to Cubase chord pads .
I was up all night until I came up with a half solution .

The problem is the Montage can only communicate by usb or midi not both at the same time .
So when I try to put the cirklon in the mix to sequence my hardware gear while synced to Montage .
The problem became for me who's gonna be the boss (clock) Cubase , Montage ,or Cirklon go figure I literally got know sleep but wow it was worth it .

I manage to midi into cubase on USB and midi out to Cirklon then from there back to Montage .
I tried making Cubase the boss clock but couldn't get things in sync and every way you could think of , I would be cool to get the Montage clock to start the cirklon but I need it to go though Cubase 1st .
Confused yet man what a mind but the the Music I've be making with Montage inspires me so much that it's more than worth it .

Thanks for your help and any more ideas but I'm going to try what you said above maybe theres hope ,
if not l like BM said I just have to be a musician and play on time .

Oh yes, no matter what, playing on time is going to be important. Even if you have key on start with a note, you still need to count-in and trigger the chord or note at the appropriate time, in the aporopriste range, at the appropriate velocity.

Bad Mister wrote:

Oh yes, no matter what, playing on time is going to be important. Even if you have key on start with a note, you still need to count-in and trigger the chord or note at the appropriate time, in the aporopriste range, at the appropriate velocity.

Thanks great info

Jason wrote:

===================

Dealing with what you have:

Taking a look at the Cirklon manual, I see:

page 12-3 "If you enable record mode while the sequencer is not running, it will automatically start on receiving the first incoming note."

This seems like a method for synchronizing the first note played with the first downbeat of the first measure.

I know other products support waiting for the first note played to start the XYZ feature (whatever the product does) - so this is what I was searching for with the Cirklon. Might this help at least one portion of the problem?

I'm not sure who you are or where your from but thanks because it worked !!!!!:D
And it was easy .
Do you also use Cirklon ?

This forum is not necessarily the appropriate spot to get support for 3rd party hardware when the issue is entirely using that 3rd party hardware and not necessarily anything to do with Montage. However, I help out with 3rd party software/hardware as a means to demonstrate how easy it can be to arrive at solutions if you search for the answer within the manuals or existing documentation. Certainly some are easier than others - so this is not a blanket statement.

Getting more specific to this thread: I never heard of the Cirklon and didn't know much more of what Cirklon was for - other than provide some sequencer features with a MIDI interface (all from your email). So I searched for the manual - didn't read any of the manual - just searched for the key terms inside the manual PDF for what I was looking for. "First note" was one of those terms. Quickly found the paragraph and copied/pasted it to the forum - citing the source. That's it. I still do not know what Cirklon can do in its entirety - nor was I concerned about any of that.

As I mentioned in the "Site Feedback" response - I'm just a fellow gigging keyboardist using the same public resources available in order to help others and myself to use the Montage with connected equipment.

Glad I could help.

Although I agree you have to have reasonably good timing (varies w/genre - in many genres timing is much more important than note choice - "if it ain't got that swing ...") to be a performing musician - in order to have ARPs "play" your keyboard; and in order for the computer to "play" your keyboard - you shouldn't have to have any "chops". There is a usage model where the technology has to have the chops and you turn into the producer. Sure, triggering ARPs live requires timing - but this was not the use case outlined from what I could tell. Luckily, the connected hardware had you covered. It would be nice if all requests tried to understand the intent of the user and did not employ "slight of hand" to derail what otherwise may be a good learning opportunity for Yamaha and guide future enhancements of the product line. Or, in some cases, state that the user has run into a limitation of the hardware. This is one of those "if the shoe fits" statements - as there are certainly examples of exemplary support that demonstrate exactly what I would hope would happen more consistently.

Thank you J , well todays producers has to wear many hats so I'm glad you and Yamaha support is here helping me achieve my goals of making great music .