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Changes in Audio Quality- Analog Out vs Headphones- Help

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Okay.

Using the same phones, DT 770 Pro's;

If I monitor the Montage through the headphone jacks, it is gorgeous. Full, crisp, a true pleasure.

Whenever I switch to monitoring through my studio, it sounds further away, not as crisp, and ultimately unsatisfying.

My setup is great- super transparent in monitoring. I have Mogami cables going from Analog L/R through my Apollo 16 mkII Interface, then through a reference headphone amp (Crimson HPA100).

So, it's either the Crimson is too warm and I don't like it, meaning hopefully the Drawmer MC2.1 would be a better referencing headphone amp. The problem is that I've only experiences such a drastic change in tonality with the montage,

Which makes me believe...

Does the Montage always sound different locally (headphones) vs Analog Out? Is there a different engine involved? Is the Analog Out straight through the PAC (Pure Analog Circuit) and not disturbed by any other routing, where the headphone jack is different for some reason?

Analog out seems different than the headphone jack. Not in a great way.

Explanations, clarifications and/or help, please.

 
Posted : 12/07/2016 9:14 am
Scott
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Have you played with your gain staging?

I'd been working with my home studio for years, never happy with the sound (hiss, clipping, generally a crappy sound) even though I have quality audio components (JBL, Crown, Speck, Yamaha). A couple of weeks ago I decided to buckle down and figure out what the problem was and it turns out it was all in my gain staging. The system sounds stellar now.

The quick and dirty is, anything that is an output device, turn it up until the output just starts to clip whatever input device it's wired to, or to a 0 dB gain setting, whichever comes first. The Montage is a +4 dBu output synth so it has pro-level outs. I have mine cranked to full up on the main output slider. It's then going into a Speck mixer with +28 dBu input capability, so there's no way it's going to clip that. Then I turn up the output of the mixer to a 0dB gain setting and with a full-on assault out of the Montage, adjust the input sensitivity of the Yamaha A/D converters until the peaks just barely start to show a red clip light. Then the output of the converter is set to 10 (which again is 0 dB gain, it doesn't have the ability to boost the signal like the Speck mixer) going into the Crown amps, with the Crown amp input sensitivity turned way down. I honestly can't believe how much better it all sounds.

You should have the Apollo set to the +4 dBu input setting and the Montage cranked to 10. The Apollo will take peaks to 20.2 dBu which is about 8 volts. I measured peaks on the Montage around 1.8 volts, so it should be maxed out; you're not going to clip the input. Then adjust the output of the Apollo to 0 dB gain. You don't want any attenuation, but you don't want any gain coloring the signal either. The Crimson has a +20 dBu input capability so you shouldn't be clipping that either. Simply adjust the Crimson input sensitivity knob to suit your volume needs.

Any better? The idea is to get the Montage signal moving through your system without any attenuation from any output device, but without something adding any gain to the signal either until it hits the headphone amp.

 
Posted : 12/07/2016 11:40 am
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Topic starter
 

Great points.

Let me experiment. I'll report back soon.

 
Posted : 12/07/2016 5:19 pm
david
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Reputable Member
 

I had static and horrible Montage output the other night when playing chords I was like "what is the deal". The primary level indicators on the Yamaha TF1 where normal. The TF1 has that magical premium gain finder application also. I finally noticed that my Montage volume had gotten pushed to maximum probably from my cover getting snagged on it. The mixer volume was normal. Then I noticed the tiny little channel levels clipping badly. Too much gain can be just as bad.

Also make certain that your mixer is panned left channel to the left and right channel to the right. I had both channels playing on each side and that was also bad.

 
Posted : 12/07/2016 7:52 pm
Scott
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Active Member
 

It all depends on the input sensitivity of the mixer channel. The TF1 should be easily able handle the max output of the Montage as long as the input sensitivity is set to the -6 dB input gain setting (according to the spec sheet, I don't actually have one).

I'd set it up so you can crank the output of the Montage without (or just barely) clipping the channel. You're going to get your best signal to noise ratio there. Then adjust the Montage down between 9 - 10 for minor patch level changes and such.

It took me a while to accept running my system this way, I was so used to grabbing the volume slider on the synth, but it sure sounds better!

 
Posted : 12/07/2016 8:07 pm
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