There was another I suppose unofficial announcement. Made my comments there. https://yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-features-16-all-new-performances-free

This is the very definition of an embarrassment of riches! I now have the Bösendorfer piano, Chick's Mark V, and the American Grand (Steinway), all loaded on my Montage, but it now takes up all the usable memory space. Even though there is an indication that I still have roughly 500 MB of memory left, if I try to load another library, I am told that the sample memory is full. These are all fantastic sounds, so I hate to remove any of them. I used to wonder why people were whining so much about limited memory on the Montage, but now I can't load more. 🙁 Waaahhh. Waaaahhh. I know I'm greedy. I just want everything.

Yamaha! I am very grateful for the new library; it sounds superb, and feels great on the Montage 8. Please keep it coming. But if someone knows how to squeeze more memory out? I tried optimizing memory twice after deleting all but the "Imperial Grand" and the Studio version of the American Grand (I copied those into user memory, and deleted the original libraries, so the waveforms are visibly loaded into User memory).

With 500MB space left, you can still get a "full" error even though you try to load a library that is under 500MB. There are also limits on the waveform count (2048 max).

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/sample-memory-full-error

Additional information:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/sampling-instruments-from-another-keyboard-with-samplerobot-and-use-them-in-the-yamaha-montage

Note I do not see a summary page on Montage for how many waveforms are in memory. Just the size.

American Grand reports 8 waveforms used (1408 samples). Hopefully the information given thus far is accurate and "waveform" does not really mean "sample" (waveforms, due to multi-sample property, can host multiple samples).

Chick Corea's Mark V reports 874 waveforms used. ** Note: but I believe this is NOT the number of new waveforms in the Mark V set - which is the key statistic for determining utilization - more analysis is below.

The waveform list (rev D0 for v1.51 or v1.50) shows 6347 waveforms used by the presets. So the 2048 number must be in addition to the preset samples.

I couldn't find any waveform statistics (count) for the Bosendorfer piano, so I used the script on http://jyamaha.alwaysdata.net/ to report the waveform information. Note that the script online only supports 99MB due to hosting limitations - so I ran the script outside of the host.

The script outputs (waveform information section):

Waveform Info numentries: 17
001: zy_fff
002: zy_ff
003: zy_mff
004: zy_f
005: zy_mf
006: zy_mp
007: zy_mpp
008: zy_p
009: zy_pp
010: zy_ppp
011: zy_KeyOff
012: zy_Damper_S_High
013: zy_Damper_S_Low
014: zy_Damper_High
015: zy_Damper_Low
016: zy_Damper_H_High
017: zy_Damper_H_Low

874+8+17=899 is fairly far from 2048 so I wouldn't think you're hitting that wall. In terms of memory storage:

Chick Corea's Mark V: 423.5MB
American Grand: 610.4MB
Bosendorfer: 409MB

1442.9MB (1750MB available) : 1750-1442.9 = 307.1MB

Maybe some of the statistics for memory storage above are not accurate because they may be listing the file size - which seems to be more than the true space a library takes in memory. You should be taking your free space information from the [UTILITY] "Contents"--> "Data Utility" menu and selecting ">Montage > waveform" (at top). You'll see a statistic "XX / 1.8GB". The 1.8GB is rounded up, the actual number is 1750MB. So there are 50MB of rounding error. The "XX" is the amount of space used. So 1750MB - XX = your free sample space.

Also, if you have any audio recordings on your Montage - these appear to take up sample space.

I assume you have a free library slot.

Looking at the waveform list for Bosendorfer - you could take out some of the velocity layers if less than 10 works for you. Maybe the nuance effects (key off, damper) do not enhance your experience more than having the free memory would - so you could trim the additional noises (for realism) out.

I don't have the American Grand library to see how it is put together - but I imagine you could do the same trimming as the Bosendorfer.

Also, I'm not sure if other statistics are correct or if there is otherwise some issue with the decoder. The FREE Chick Corea Mark V shows on the webpage "874 waveforms". Yet the free download is only reporting 5 new waveforms:

Waveform Info numentries: 5
001: 1_low 001.wav
002: 2_low-mid 001.wav
003: 3_high-mid 001.wav
004: 4_high 001.wav
005: 5_release 001.wav

I know for the synth and CFX piano, etc - the Chick Corea Mark V set is referencing presets. So maybe in the "874 waveforms" they conflated the statistics including waveforms used in the presets in addition to the new ones of the Mark V. This would be bad because it makes it hard to get any use out of the waveform statistic.

When you watch the Corea "making of" videos - you see that the Motif XF version has more velocity layers. So this free one is "optimized" for lower memory utilization. Perhaps "dumbed down" is a pessimistic way of putting it. Not sure if Chick Corea's Montage uses this free version or the original set with more layers (slightly tuned to include superknob control).

With only 4 velocity layers in the Mark V set - I wouldn't take any out. Maybe the release noise can be trimmed.

Thanks, Jason, for all the research and info. Sorry, I didn't realize about the sample number limit. I bet if those waveform sets are multi sampled then at least 10 of the velocity layers per key (97 *10) and roughly 7 velocity layers for the American Grand (I unloaded it so I will have to check) (88 * 7 = 616) will bring that number over the 2048 limit (874+970+616 = 2460). Sorry, I just realized I had to unload the American Grand to make this fit.:( So it looks like I can have at most two of these multi sampled keyboards loaded at a time. Waaahhh. It's not fair....Maybe if I whine more about more User memory, etc., someone will take pity. Probably not, since I have the greatest sounding keyboard in the world, and I should be grateful. Sigh....

If this is true then the 2048 waveform limit is a misnomer and should rather had been stated as 2048 individual sample limit.

I'll let Yamaha chime in - but, as a more general statement, it is important for users to have a strategy to see what resource utilization they currently have and also see exactly how many resources a library will consume in order to make informed purchasing decisions. At this point, I do not see system-level utilization statistics to check all parameters which have limits and also I have some doubts if the different metrics for limitations have been accurately communicated.

Certainly the marketing/"technical" information on the website does not help as it appears "system requirement" type specifications do not use the same meaning for items such as "number of waveforms". Any waveforms that are part of the presets that add to the count are not meaningful and seem like specification bloat to "win a prize" rather than true statistics that can be used in a meaningful way.

There must be something I must not understand about loading libraries into memory. I just erased all libraries to make room, then performed "optimize memory," and now I can only load the Bösendorfer. Even though it only takes up 374 MB of memory now, I can't load either the American Grand or Chick's Mark V which I just had loaded.!? How is that possible? Have I already worn out the flash memory? I have loaded or unloaded a library of some kind probably about 20 or 30 times. I would not consider that a lot with modern flash memory. I also considered if it could be my USB flash drive, so I tried another. I have been using these particular USB drives for several months without a hitch.

This is very likely not a wearing issue. The type of memory selected is not as wear susceptible as lower-end SDCard memory fabric.

I would do a backup and "Initialize All Data" to return the keyboard back to factory. This will ensure no orphan content.

If you delete some library that a user performance is referencing waveform data - then I believe the waveform data will be copied to the user area so the waveforms do not actually get removed even though the library is no longer in place. I'm not really sure of this - but I am sure there are things that happen that are similar to this example - so even if not technically accurate - gives some "flavor" of what can be happening.

Some of this would be more clear with a more "grandma could understand it" approach (no offense intended to the technically savvy grandmothers out there - it's an expression). But that hasn't been Yamaha's style necessarily. It's important to keep track of the underlying workings since the OS does not operate altogether intuitively - certainly not for file operations.

Some form of a computer-based librarian which can be more verbose, more organized, more feature-rich, and more intuitive would help the situation. At least when we manage to mangle up the file system while out at a gig - we can hook up the computer in the studio and get everything back in order.

File operations are usually accomplished at the studio anyhow - so it's unlikely we would be fooling with the file system while at the gig or practice.

Thanks, I'll try initializing it, and see what happens.

Hi Kenneth,
Not really a discussion of the Chick Corea Mark V, more a discussion of the Flash Memory usage of Montage.

You should be able to load the Bosendorfer Library, the Chick Corea Mark V Library, the Synthony American Grand Library, and the Blue Man Group Library and still have plenty of room to spare. What you probably are overlooking is the data currently in your USER BANK.

Waveform data loaded to the USER Bank, will occupy memory, so it is a good idea when installing data to a LIBRARY location to first clear your User Bank memory of any data occupying Waveform space.

Waveform data in the User Bank is deleted and overwritten when you load a new USER File (.X7U)
Waveform data loaded as a LIBRARY File .(X7L) bypasses the User memory and goes directly to the first available Library area - leaving any data in User unchanged - nothing is ever overwritten by a LIBRARY File.

So if you have Waveforms in the USER Bank it will impact the amount of room you appear to have.

Try "Initialize User Data", (the next to the last option on the System screen) prior to installing data to your Library.
UTILITY > "Settings" > "System"

You don't have to Initialize everything... just User data.
Don't make it more complicated than necessary.

... I tried to sprinkle in some discussion of the Chick Corea set. Any reason why the website shows it uses 874 waveforms?

Reference:
https://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/synth/chicks-mark-v-montage?___store=us_retail_en&

874 waveforms. Linear data = 1.1GB, Compressed = 423.5MB

There do not appear to be 874 NEW waveforms in the Chick's Mark V set.

Also, recommendation to initialize all was to make sure usb imported WAV/AIFF files were cleared out too if there were any of those in his Montage. I wasn't aware those would be cleared out by clearing "user data". The reference manual shows:

Initialize User Data
Initializes User data (Performance, Motion Sequence, and Live Set) in the specified area of the User
memory and system settings you created on the Utility display.

Then again, "Initialize All Settings" doesn't exactly say imported wav files (from USB) are included either since it refers to "user data" plus system settings. So neither specifically says the "waveform" folder under contents is included as user data (performance, motion sequence, live set) and certainly these waveforms are not considered "system settings".

Part of the issue leading to confusion is lack of visibility of labeling object locations and resource utilization. As I was describing before, you therefore have to know how the underlying system works without having any clues from the keyboard that would otherwise make more sense.

Maybe how it works isn't that complicated - that's a judgement call. Experts seem to find it not complicated - new-to-Yamaha keyboard users seem to have problems "getting it" without some hand holding. What I'm expressing is that no matter how you prefer to label the complexity of the system - it would be easier (relative to today) to sort out with a better resource summary page - as one suggestion.

[System Utilization]
Total Used Resources:
Waveform count: 1,234 of 2,048
Sample Memory: 850MB of 1750MB

Resources in Library Area:
Waveform count: 1,234
Sample Memory: 850MB

Resources in User Data Area:
Waveforms: 0
Sample Memory: 0MB

I'm not sure at the moment how USB imported files (".wav" files shown in the Contents->Data Utility "Waveforms" section) but if they contribute to the overall waveform count, then USB imported .wav files should be listed as a statistic too. The summary should show the total - including count - and each bucket where the data "lives" (user data, library, other? ...). Maybe there is no other - documentation is not exhaustive enough to determine.

When you are able to extract exactly how many resources a user's keyboard is using - and where to find those resources (library area, user area, etc) - then it would be much easier to explain and follow the bouncing ball.

The memory is not enough....my montage is full. I have 5 library from easy sounds, bosendorfer and American grand.. I can't mount mark V. I'm waiting for montage 2 with 5 Gb memory

Hello people - just chipping in - why not use a large capacity USB key? Only have on Montage what you're actually using at the time? I swap Libraries around all the time (and I have a lot of User stuff in progress too) and so far I've had no problems. Just keep your eye on what's where. I do agree that a larger capacity would be nice, but it would only shift things down the line a bit ...

@Andrea - if you get a Montage 8 instead of an 88-key MIDI controller, then this will save 400Euro off the Montage, provide you with an 8-zone MIDI controller (using Montage 8) - it's way heavier than you would wish - but it would give you twice the sample memory. So you would put half the libraries on one keyboard and half on the other.

If you spent some time trimming the libraries - you could probably fit everything you actually use together.

This is a fabulous sound-set, thank you Yamaha!

I've found what may be a small bug in the '70s solos' performance. The sustain pedal is disabled in Part2 (which I assume is deliberate so you can play solos over held chords, like having a mini-moog over the Rhodes), but part3 does not have it disabled so the really high notes still sustain. It's easy to fix, of course, but it caught me out first time 🙂