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Controlling Filter Cutoff with SuperKnob

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Jason
Posts: 7951
Illustrious Member
 

Let me go back to your question about the assignments and how something non-intuitive happened:

Do you still have the plastic protector on the touch screen? It has been mentioned that this may interfere with the precision of the touch screen.
Have you calibrated the touch screen recently? It may be worth doing.

I'm going down this route because I'm wondering if inadvertently, the wrong destination was picked. You can scroll through them with the DATA DIAL and press [ENTER] to select instead of the touchscreen. There's potentially lots to scroll through - but the "hyperdrive" feature of the DATA DIAL (my term) where the values increase at a faster rate the faster the DATA DIAL is spun (not just 1:1 with speed, but there is a turbo-boost that happens). So this makes short order of using the DATA dial to get through the choices if precision is needed.

Knowing about the two "rooms" (areas of settings) - you can always go back and trace your steps to see how the system is configured.

Even working backwards from presets that use the global/common assignable knobs cascaded down to PART level assignable knobs is a valid way to learn. Enough working backwards with these - and you'll have the ins/outs down. "CFX+FM EP" has interesting mappings and not too much to bite off. Easier to start with the global/common area (Common A.Knob 1 affects PART5, Common A.Knob 2 affects PART 1, 2, 3, and 4). Then you'd pick up the chain at each of those PARTs and look at the PART A.Knob that was set to wiggle upstream. The "All 9 Bars!" I think has lots of things to look at. "FM Harpsichord" is a simple one with just a single common A.knob and single PART A.Knob with a single destination. Almost every performance has some trivial to more complex mapping that you can explore.

Also, you can unlink the Super Knob. The link needs to be there in order for the first line of knob turning defense to be initiated. This is an on/off - but another chance for inadvertent pressing. If you start with a preset then "roll off" the preset and come back (reload) it - then, assuming you did not [STORE] the errant edit - the defaults may restore the settings to a working state.

There are a number of possibilities given the flexibility of what could have been the issue.

 
Posted : 04/07/2017 2:53 am
Tommy
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I am familiar with the intermediate parameter linking a controller with an audible parameter, from my work on the Roland XP and XV synths.

Why is the destination above the source, on the touchscreen display?
If we are dealing with causes and effects, shouldn't the cause be above the effect?

Why do we have to go to a completely different mode and page when we are on the Common/Control/Control Assign page, just to see what it is we're controlling?

(and no, the protector is not the issue here, it's long gone. (but the stickers remain 🙂 )

 
Posted : 04/07/2017 3:04 am
Tommy
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Here are some Performances i've been programming.

 
Posted : 04/07/2017 10:38 am
Jason
Posts: 7951
Illustrious Member
 

When first getting acquainted with the interface - it wasn't plainly obvious that the squares where the destinations go are for destination parameters. The source is clearly labeled as "Source" - but there is not a visual clue because the label "Destination" is missing. I suggested simply adding such a label. You're right, the flow (order) is counter intuitive as well. The filter (for selecting a source to quickly look at) is at the top - so maybe they thought this was covered by filter-then-destination.

There is another screen to look at which shows a summary of at least the knob assignments. There's an overview screen:

Looks like this:


Photo Credit: https://www.sud-claviers.com/boutique/fr/3515-montage-8.html

That doesn't cover the different areas to set these up - but does provide yet a different screen to go to if you want to review how its setup. One "beef" I have with the overview is that it doesn't cover all the sources - some are left out of the summary.

Yamaha, in general, is fond of compartmentalizing features into their own "box", "area", "room". So it sometimes places some burden on your menu diving picking up the slack of what could otherwise be a more elegant way to "hide" the complexity (without losing any flexibility). The nice thing is that there is the flexibility although you are often left thinking there's a more efficient way.

 
Posted : 04/07/2017 7:03 pm
Tommy
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks Jason - you know I've been to that screen you just posted, but I thought it was a joke - an Easter egg hacked in there by some YamaTech with a sense of humor!
It's all starting to sink in, gradually, so thank you once again for your patience.

The COMMON button on the right, and the 3 green indicator lights on the left that tell you what the sliders are controlling...those now get a great deal of attention from me. The paradoxical 'irony' that you've gotta be in Performance Control Mode to control the Parts, is brilliant! And the added detail that depending whether you're in COMMON or not, Part Control controls different things; AND there's the Shift+ Part Control capabilities, to get into the Elements with the sliders! In-genius.

Yes, it's fine to (after some serious cogitation...) to express frustration with the way certain things have been set up to work on this miracle machine,
BUT no one said everyone has to be an olympic quality editor on it, right?! - it still has awesome sound quality, a great touch, and it's beautiful.
Plus, maybe John Melas will write and Editor for laptops - possibly with screen overlaps - one day!
(but I will be an olympic quality editor before that long!)

Take care, and thank you again!

 
Posted : 04/07/2017 10:29 pm
Jason
Posts: 7951
Illustrious Member
 

On the overview screen (aka confusing joke screen) can be modified to take away some of the extraneous lines if all you're concerned about is SuperKnob+Different Levels of A.Knobs.

The (fixed) "Controllers" can be turned off. They, at least in the picture shown, take up a lot of screen mess with the lines crossing over the other content which is more interesting for seeing the A.Knob connections.

You can turn off the yellow "fader" ones too - since these are not part of the A.Knob/Super Knob connections.

What you'll be left with is a less convoluted assemblage of lines and probably easier to pick out. It would be kind of cool if you could turn the DATA DIAL (or something) and single out objects one-at-a-time which would highlight the associated connections (thicker line, brighter color) and dim all other connections. But at least reducing the view to only "assignable" does help.

An interesting bit of marketing term mixing is in this screen. The manuals call the controllers that are like mixing board volume controls "sliders" while this screen calls them "faders". Seems like a slip of a term going "against" the common term "slider" adopted everywhere else in the manuals. I originally called these faders - because it's what I would have named them as well - but I now try to go with the common (from the manual) term of "slider".

I think constructive "complains" are fine. Hopefully they help inform future keyboards. Sometimes users take a negative tone -- I'm not sure this is the best approach. You've always been on the right side of this - which is cool.

 
Posted : 05/07/2017 12:59 am
Tommy
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Wow, Thanks Jason, I didn't know (or maybe saw for just a second a while back, and immediately forgot) that you could turn off some of those crossing lines. That is a very powerful feature that should really make this a very useful page.
Thanks again.

 
Posted : 05/07/2017 5:56 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

The "Overview" screen can seem like a jumble if you are looking at some one else's completed work, (very much like coming into a fully setup recording session and trying to decipher what's going on by looking at the very complex patchbay), it is much easier to learn/understand as you build a sound up from scratch. This is because each front panel Control Assign you make is represented and added to that Overview as you make the assignment.

By the time you have 56 assignments, you pretty much "know" what each and every one of them is doing. A possible better analogy would be like patching a modular synth sound together, each connection is made one at a time and represents a specific source/destination connection. Looking at a finished patch - of course, can be shocking... but looking closely after you've had the experience of creating one (from scratch) makes the task some how far more doable.

It's not "all" your controllers, it is your front panel controls that shown in this Overview. The word Overview refers to the panel controls.

Things like the role of the "sliders" change and is a bit different then in the past: to the internal tone generator, they address output level... at times output level of the corresponding Part 1-16, at other times they are individual Element or Operator output level, 1-8. The Overview screen deals with the front panel assignments to the internal tone generator. And significantly, the screen offers you a direct shortcut to EDIT the Control Assign page of any Part 1-16, or to the (Performance) Common.

The "sliders" can be made to send cc007 Out via MIDI when you have activated the Zone Master function and you have designated the Part slot as an external zone with Volume control activated. At that time they can communicate Out via MIDI... the introduction of the term Fader calls attention (particularly for previous owners of the Motif-series) that the role of these seemingly familiar items is different, here. They are no longer Assignable to any cc 1-95, as in the Motif-series, their fixed role as output level, internal/external, is different.
One of the many reasons they changed the name from Motif to Montage...

 
Posted : 05/07/2017 11:39 am
Tommy
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks, BadMister for that useful info. 🙂
The other day, I was wondering how to use the Faders for external control, and now i know! (...well I know where I've got to explore.)
I've been able to control other synths' overall Filter Cutoff, Resonance, Attack and Release times with the Assignable Knobs too, so long as the TONE button on the upper left is illuminated (to the right of the Audio button) and I've got the COMMON button lit over on the upper half, to the right of the touch screen. Also very useful.

 
Posted : 05/07/2017 4:47 pm
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