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cubase velocity distortion issues

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 Jay
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Hi there. I have a montage 8 and cubase pro 10.5. Using keyscape as a cubase plugin and the montage as controller is a headache. Playing harder on the keyboard causes keyscape's piano presets to have distortion, so I have to play softly or not at all. This doesn't happen when keyscape is in standalone mode or a plugin in reaper. But cubase is my main daw because of it's seamless integration with the montage. I have tried reducing the volume inside keyscape itself, all the faders in cubase, and even tried another audio interface but still the same problem. Is this a keyscape issue, cubase issue, or montage issue?

Spectrasonics tech couldn't figure out the problem either.

 
Posted : 25/09/2020 9:25 pm
 Jay
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Ok I am trying to learn all this. Leaving the cubase mixer faders in their default -0- position isn't the smart thing to do I'm finding out. Fiddling around with them seems to have fixed things.

 
Posted : 25/09/2020 11:04 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Is this a keyscape issue, cubase issue, or montage issue?

We don’t have enough information about how you have the MONTAGE setup. But we can certainly help you troubleshoot this a bit and from there you can figure out the best way to proceed.

For this troubleshooting session please setup and use the Zone Master function to address the plugin. We also create an Initialized Performance to act as the plugin’s control. A common mistake is to just let the MONTAGE transmit to the DAW... You need to prepare one of the Performance Part slots to address your external plugin. What the MONTAGE sends Out via MIDI initially is specifically for the MONTAGE, by setting a Performance Part slot specifically to address your external plugin will be how we eliminate any misreading of data. We are going to setup a Performance Part slot, called a “Zone”, to specifically address the plugin

In [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “Advanced”
Activate the “Zone Master” = On

Just to cover all bases, while in UTILITY, touch “Settings” > “Sound”
Verify that your overall Velocity Curve is set to something other than “Fixed” — this will influence your Velocity Curve. (Normal, Soft, Hard, Wide)

Create an Init Perf
Press [HOME]
Press [CATEGORY SEARCH]
Set “Bank/Favorite” = All
Set “Attribute” = All
Tap “Init” and select “Init AWM2 (Normal)”
Press [HOME]
Press [PART SELECT 1]
Touch “Part Settings” > “Zone Settings”
Here we will setup an external Zone that you can use to address the plugin synth in Cubase. It is necessary to create a Zone using a Part slot of a MONTAGE Performance. This Part slot will be designated to just transmit Out via MIDI. The internal sound will be disabled completely. This will allow us to use it exclusively for controlling the plugin.

Set the “Zone” = On
Set “Int Sw” = Off __ turning the Internal Switch Off makes this slot exclusively for external use.
Set “Transmit Ch” _you can use any channel you desire.

You can turn “Bank Select”, “Program Change” = Off (if you don’t need them)
You can set a Volume and a Pan position p, if you like
Set the “Note Limits“ and Octave Shift/Transpose as you require.
Set MIDI SEND = On to communicate directly from this screen with the receiving device.

Go to “Part Settings” > “Zone Transmit” > here you can determine which controllers are active transmitting to your plugin

You now can use the MONTAGE to control the plugin. You can press [STORE]
Name this Performance “External Ctrl” or the name of the plugin anything to alert you to its purpose.

By keeping this as one of your User Performances, you can *replace* a Part in any Performance with this ZONE setup... should you want to play both the MONTAGE and your external plugin.

 
Posted : 25/09/2020 11:33 pm
 Jay
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Thank you Bad Mister. After going through these troubleshooting steps I found the step that actually fixes the issue. On the performance screen, whichever part is selected has to have "Kbd Ctrl" turned off. When it's turned on the sound is doubled up and distorts easily. When I went through these steps and saved it, then turned power off and back on, called up the user 1 bank, it was loud and obnoxious again. I went through and looked at everything and that kbd ctrl was on again. So I had to turn it off manually. I don't know why it didn't save. But anyway the sound problem is solved thanks to your help.

Now the only issue is the montage boots up with local control turned off even when I put it in standalone mode before powering the unit down. How do I get the montage to boot up with all settings in default mode?

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 12:37 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

After going through these troubleshooting steps I found the step that actually fixes the issue. On the performance screen, whichever part is selected has to have "Kbd Ctrl" turned off. When it's turned on the sound is doubled up and distorts easily. When I went through these steps and saved it, then turned power off and back on, called up the user 1 bank, it was loud and obnoxious again. I went through and looked at everything and that kbd ctrl was on again. So I had to turn it off manually. I don't know why it didn't save. But anyway the sound problem is solved thanks to your help.

You discovered something that might have worked but it is NOT the solution.

Actually you want to have KBD CTRL = On. Doesn’t that make sense. Keyboard Control is self explanatory— the currently active Part is active as the Controller Keyboard.

Please read what I described in great detail. You want KBD CTRL = ON, but you want to turn the INT SW (Internal Switch) = Off — that will stop the KBD CTRL’d Part from triggering the internal sound.

Now the only issue is the montage boots up with local control turned off even when I put it in standalone mode before powering the unit down. How do I get the montage to boot up with all settings in default mode?

I was not aware that you could do that (Local Control = Off as the default)... I’ll have to take a look at that.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 12:50 am
 Jay
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I was sure I did turn that switch off but I will go through everything again just to make sure.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 1:09 am
 Jay
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Ok the int sw is off but the sound is still doubled up and distorted...not the internal sounds but doubled up keyscape sound. Again turning "kbd ctrl" off is what fixed it... even though int sw is off and local control is off. That is what I am seeing anyway. I know it doesn't make sense to me either lol.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 1:16 am
 Jay
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Interestingly selecting one of the other parts that still have kbd ctrl on will trash the sound again until you turn it off. I could be way off base here so correct me if I'm wrong on this. It seems that because of the way the montage and cubase interact with each other any vsti's in cubase are somehow looped back on themselves and doubled up. I found that turning kbd ctrl off made all my other plugin instruments suddenly sound better and more in control. They were all doubled up. Keyscape just happened to be powerful enough to bring out the bad result enough to notice that it was an issue with the system setup and not with me. This is just my opinion based on what I am experiencing.

This also may be the reason it doesn't happen in standalone mode, because cubase is not involved.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 1:49 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Interestingly selecting one of the other parts that still have kbd ctrl on will trash the sound again until you turn it off.

Look, I don’t want to be a stick in the mud, but there are no “other parts that still have KBD CTRL on“ — if you are following my instructions. You can continue to guess, but when you want to find out what is going on - when/if you get a chance — try following the troubleshooting guide I took the time to write out for you. If you do you will have one KBD CTRL Part setup to play your external Plugin. And you see there are no “other parts” at all. Try it — then we can continue to troubleshoot from there. Ok?

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 5:02 am
 Jay
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My apologies. Believe me I did follow your guide because this morning when I called up that user bank it worked just like you said it would. And it only had the one part and kbd ctrl on. If I hadn't somehow messed things up afterward with my fiddling around I would have just said thank you Bad Mister it worked in my earlier post, but no my idiot self had to go and muck it all up. And I was also wrong about the montage booting up with local control off. It did that when I turned it on immediately after turning it off but after leaving it off for more than a half second it boots up just like it is supposed to.

Thank you for the write up...and again I did follow it and it would've worked if I had just left it at that and not done something dumb afterwards without realizing it (still not sure what it is). Might have had something to do with those bogus montage-won't-boot-up-in-default-mode scenarios I talked about. Again my apologies. You were right. Sorry to have bothered you.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 11:41 am
 Jay
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I figured out what I did wrong. After the initial setting up of the zone as you suggested everything was fine. Where I goofed up was when I restarted everything. The montage was back in default mode so I called up the category search and clicked the user bank. But then I just stopped there and thought it was good enough. For some reason it didn't occur to me that I have to actually click the performance itself, not just the user bank it's in....duh! Just because I see it on the screen doesn't mean it's activated but I assumed it was lol. I don't know why I did that. That's why I started tinkering around with other things including the kbd ctrl button. I have to remember to actually click things to make them work. I must be getting old. I can't even bend down to tie my shoelaces without wondering what else I can do while I'm down there.

And that is a very good write-up you did. It's a must for using the montage as a controller for vsti's in cubase. At least for me it is.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 1:46 pm
Jason
Posts: 7951
Illustrious Member
 

I think you've learned this basic already, but I'll still provide: every Performance has a name. When you're looking at [CATEGORY SEARCH] (for Performances) - the names are listed on a grid. After you change the Performance, you can see the current Performance name by pressing [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) and the current Performance name will be shown at the top of the touchscreen.

If you don't see the right name there - then you haven't selected the intended Performance yet.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 5:24 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

No worries! Glad you got it all happening!

A Part you setup for external Zone Control can be searched for, and used to replace and Part slot data (this is why it is important to name properly so you can recall it whenever/wherever you need it.

 
Posted : 26/09/2020 7:33 pm
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