Hi Suresh,

I certainly don’t see any delay in response nor skipped notes with any sound. That’s most certainly not normal unless maybe you play 10 times faster than I do and/or have many more fingers than I do...

However, to see if this is a problem of the board some other factors need to be taken into account: is the Montage connected to any MIDI or USB equipment? Please make sure nothing than loudspeakers or headphones is connected and try again. If you have MIDI or USB connected you may have some loop which causes those effects.

Also is this a built-in library sound or did you mess with it some way (I guess you would have mentioned this, just to be sure)?

Also could you try and factory reset (somewhere in utilities/ system)?

If nothing else than what I mentioned is connected and this is a stock Bosendorfer sound then I would guess it is a hardware problem...

Hello,

I have a Montage 8 with the Bosendorfer Piano installed too and I never had delays or missing notes.
Have you changed something in the velocity settings?

It may sound funny, but did you check the settings for your sustain pedal? If you run a on/off pedal with the wrong setting some strange cutoff and delay appears with the sound. The factory setting is half damper! If you change that, maybe that’ll solve your problem....

Another possibility: maybe you switched of one of the parts of the performance? Check it with a green colored performance of the boesendorfer...

Suresh wrote:

I see a delay in the keyboard response particularly for the Bosendorfer sound (imperial pianos). Has anyone seen this? I am not sure why? When I play fast notes, the keyboard does not have a response (actually sound) and misses some notes to be heard. Any thoughts? I just got my board a week ago and I may call Tech Support to discuss also. Thanks for your input.

Make sure you have the latest firmware. The issue was addressed many firmware versions ago. The firmware currently is version 2.00.x

Press [UTILITY]
Touch “Settings” > “System”
The firmware will appear across the bottom of the screen.

You can download the firmware updater (includes the Updater File and detailed instructions) from the Yamaha MONTAGE product page on your regional Yamaha.com website. (Go to the Yamaha main site as if you wanted to find out about the the MONTAGE. Doing so will automatically filter the DOWNLOAD search to just the MONTAGE content.

The installed data in your MONTAGE will be lost, when you execute the update; you can/should make a User File for your current data; you will need to reinstall all data after you have updated your instrument’s firmware. Much like all hardware technology these days your MONTAGE can add new sounds, new effect types, operation changes, bug fixes, new functions and features via installation of a new firmware... at Yamaha that is apart of the instrument’s design concept, to add new features and functions during the product life cycle... the download will include a Supplementary (New Feature) Manual that will outline all of the add features to date. The one version includes all previous improvements.

Once you download the data, read through the instructions twice... once to understand the process, the second time as you execute the process.
If you get stuck post back here.

Like issues with any technology, your first thought should be “is my instrument running the latest firmware?”

Thanks all for your responses. I disconnected the USB cable, the sustain pedal and other all accessories. I only have the power cable and the two output cables connnected to my speakers.

I also have the latest firmware - version 2.00.3. All updated.

The problem occurs only with the Imperial Grand Piano sound from the Bösendorfer bank. Here are the steps to recreate it every time in my board:
- Category Search -> Initi -> Multi/GM -> Performance Home -> Click Part 1 Sound -> Category Search -> Select Imperial Grand Piano from Bösendorfer Bank.

Only in the above steps I have sounds that skip. I don’t believe it is a hardware problem. I will try and reset the board to factory setting. If I did a factory reset, will this erase new sounds I installed?

Thanks again!

A factory initialization will return the Montage to the state of the keyboard when it was new in the box with the exception of the firmware version (which will remain the same as your last update).

Therefore, no user sounds or libraries will be present and will require re-install.

I would save everything off as an X7A (backup) - but right after the factory initialization, install only the Bosendorfer library from a fresh download on Yamahamusicsoft.com -- this way, you have a clean Montage with a "fresh" download for the install.

If the problem persists, you can restore the X7A which has all of your previous content.

The problem occurs only with the Imperial Grand Piano sound from the Bösendorfer bank. Here are the steps to recreate it every time in my board:
- Category Search -> Initi -> Multi/GM -> Performance Home -> Click Part 1 Sound -> Category Search -> Select Imperial Grand Piano from Bösendorfer Bank.

This explains why. You are in a “MULTI/GM” template, which is designed to recall Parts where “Attribute” = Single

The Performance you are recalling has more than one Part (Multi Part)... so if you are attempting to load any of the Bosendorfer Performances (which are all Multi Part programs) then you are loading only partial pianos. For example, if you Load the “Imperal Grand Piano”, normally a 3 Part, 13 Element Instrument.
Part 1 is six Elements covering velocities up to 89.
Part 2 is six Elements covering 90-127.
Part 3 is the KeyOff Sound.

So by loading just Part 1 of a Multi Part Instrument, the “missing notes” are any that exceed a velocity of 89.
Either load the rest of the piano by loading Part 2 to Part 2, and if you want the KeyOff Sound, Load Part 3 to Part 3.
Then to play that Multi Part Instrument you must set KBD CTRL active on these three Parts, to reassemble the piano.

The MONTAGE breaks the “one instrument-one channel-one track” mold (or you can) like when you want to use multiple synth engines to build an instrument sound. With the AWM2 (sampled-based) engine you are not limited (sic) to just eight oscillators (Elements). Each 8 Element AWM2 Part is the equivalent of a Motif XF, if you want to build a mega sound with up to eight Motif XF’s you can/could. You add more Elements to treat them differently in constructing your sound... for more articulations and as in this case more detail in the velocity mapping of the acoustic piano.... making this a great piano for detailed solo work.

A 3-Part Instrument will occupy three Parts and use three channels...

If you are wishing to use the MONTAGE as a sixteen Part multi-timbral tone engine, where a different instrument is on each channel, then when searching for instruments, you want set the CATEGORY SEARCH “Attribute” option = “Single” (green). Doing so when inside the MULTI/GM setup template will show you single Part sounds that are complete instruments.

Extra Credit:
When we talk about breaking the mold, we are referring to how you can, if you wish, setup your sounds. As a keyboard player in a “live” band, or when called to the studio to a session, you may be asked to be piano, or organ, or strings, or brass, or a dozen other things. In these kind of situations you are not asked to do them all at once.

Say you are asked to do a string orchestra interlude for a particular piece, you want to recall a sound that can do the job ... perhaps you need bowed strings, a spiccato bowed section, pizzicato and a solo cello line. You could assemble all the string articulations into one KBD CTRL Performance and BE the String orchestra.

Say you are asked to do horns for a composition, again assemble the articulations you require into a Performance and become the Brass - for those who work alone with a Sequencer have become used to working under the 16 channel limit. Obviously if you wind up using 3 or 4 Parts for your piano, and 7 for your strings and 4 for your Brass, you’re gonna hit your chosen method’s limit rather quickly.

The way around this is to work as if the keyboard was not going to have to be EVERYTHING, at ALL TIMES... you will want to choose your sounds wisely... and by that I mean... if you are doing all the sequencing with just a MONTAGE... You may want to develop a workflow where you do the backing instruments first, for example, a common workflow would be the rhythm section instruments (drums/Perc, bass, guitars, piano/organs), render the data to audio (MONTAGE features 16 stereo bus Outputs for easily rendering high quality audio tracks)... once you’ve rendered audio you can reuse your hardware... now construct your sweetening tracks... strings, pads, brass, etc. then render those as audio. And so on...

Thanks, Bad Mister. What you wrote makes sense and I had just realized this issue. I actually did not understand how the parts work and thanks a bunch for your time writing this detailed response. I would say case closed and thanks to all of you including Marcus who actually gave me a hint of this in his response. Happy Montaging!

The problem occurs only with the Imperial Grand Piano sound from the Bösendorfer bank. Here are the steps to recreate it every time in my board:
- Category Search -> Initi -> Multi/GM -> Performance Home -> Click Part 1 Sound -> Category Search -> Select Imperial Grand Piano from Bösendorfer Bank.

This explains why. You are in a “MULTI/GM” template, which is designed to recall Parts where “Attribute” = Single

The Performance you are recalling has more than one Part (Multi Part)... so if you are attempting to load any of the Bosendorfer Performances (which are all Multi Part programs) then you are loading only partial pianos. For example, if you Load the “Imperal Grand Piano”, normally a 3 Part, 13 Element Instrument.
Part 1 is six Elements covering velocities up to 89.
Part 2 is six Elements covering 90-127.
Part 3 is the KeyOff Sound.

So by loading just Part 1 of a Multi Part Instrument, the “missing notes” are any that exceed a velocity of 89.
Either load the rest of the piano by loading Part 2 to Part 2, and if you want the KeyOff Sound, Load Part 3 to Part 3.
Then to play that Multi Part Instrument you must set KBD CTRL active on these three Parts, to reassemble the piano.

The MONTAGE breaks the “one instrument-one channel-one track” mold (or you can) like when you want to use multiple synth engines to build an instrument sound. With the AWM2 (sampled-based) engine you are not limited (sic) to just eight oscillators (Elements). Each 8 Element AWM2 Part is the equivalent of a Motif XF, if you want to build a mega sound with up to eight Motif XF’s you can/could. You add more Elements to treat them differently in constructing your sound... for more articulations and as in this case more detail in the velocity mapping of the acoustic piano.... making this a great piano for detailed solo work.

A 3-Part Instrument will occupy three Parts and use three channels...

If you are wishing to use the MONTAGE as a sixteen Part multi-timbral tone engine, where a different instrument is on each channel, then when searching for instruments, you want set the CATEGORY SEARCH “Attribute” option = “Single” (green). Doing so when inside the MULTI/GM setup template will show you single Part sounds that are complete instruments.

Extra Credit:
When we talk about breaking the mold, we are referring to how you can, if you wish, setup your sounds. As a keyboard player in a “live” band, or when called to the studio to a session, you may be asked to be piano, or organ, or strings, or brass, or a dozen other things. In these kind of situations you are not asked to do them all at once.

Say you are asked to do a string orchestra interlude for a particular piece, you want to recall a sound that can do the job ... perhaps you need bowed strings, a spiccato bowed section, pizzicato and a solo cello line. You could assemble all the string articulations into one KBD CTRL Performance and BE the String orchestra.

Say you are asked to do horns for a composition, again assemble the articulations you require into a Performance and become the Brass - for those who work alone with a Sequencer have become used to working under the 16 channel limit. Obviously if you wind up using 3 or 4 Parts for your piano, and 7 for your strings and 4 for your Brass, you’re gonna hit your chosen method’s limit rather quickly.

The way around this is to work as if the keyboard was not going to have to be EVERYTHING, at ALL TIMES... you will want to choose your sounds wisely... and by that I mean... if you are doing all the sequencing with just a MONTAGE... You may want to develop a workflow where you do the backing instruments first, for example, a common workflow would be the rhythm section instruments (drums/Perc, bass, guitars, piano/organs), render the data to audio (MONTAGE features 16 stereo bus Outputs for easily rendering high quality audio tracks)... once you’ve rendered audio you can reuse your hardware... now construct your sweetening tracks... strings, pads, brass, etc. then render those as audio. And so on...

I have found an issue when turning the Kbd Ctrl on and off within a performance. from the Performance Home screen, I'm finding that the keyboard still responds for a given part after setting "kbd ctrl" to grey, until an adjacent part is switched off and back on? Has anyone else experienced this issue? I'm also using firmware version 2.00.3.

Press [PREFORMANCE] (HOME) after pressing the keyboard control setting it to "grey" (off).

What you're running into is a misconception about how keyboard control works. Here's the rundown:

1) There's a concept called "selecting a PART". A PART is --selected-- if, from the (HOME) screen, you touch your finger on an individual PART which outlines the PART in a light blue or white box. Note that when you press the touchscreen to touch the "Keyboard Control" icon, you are simultaneously --selecting-- the PART.

You can also --select-- a PART by pressing the [PART CONTROL] button and then pressing any of the Number A [1]-[16] buttons. These are the 16 buttons labeled "1/1" through "8/16" under the [PART CONTROL] button. Notice when pressing the Number A [1] button (has the label "1/1" ) - PART 1 is selected and will have a box around it. Select other parts, you see the box move.

Now press the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) button. This will --un-select-- all PARTs (will leave no PARTs as selected).

2) Keyboard control depends on a couple factors: a) Which PART(s) have keyboard control ON or OFF and, b) Which PART is selected (or if no PART is selected).

IF NO PARTS ARE SELECTED --

When you mash down on piano keys - only the PARTs which have Keyboard Control set to ON will recognize your piano keys are mashed. Any PART(s) with Keyboard Control set to OFF will ignore the Montage piano keys being mashed down. PARTs 9-16 always have Keyboard Control set to OFF.

IF ANY PART IS SELECTED --

In this case, Keyboard Control acts different.

If the currently --selected-- PART has Keyboard Control ON, then the system functions as described above. The current selected PART does not ignore the Montage piano key mashing (because Keyboard Control for this PART is ON) -- and any other PART(s) which have Keyboard Control set to OFF will ignore the piano key mashing.

If the currently --selected-- PART has Keyboard Control OFF - this is where things get non-intuitive. Regardless, you need to know "the rules" so you can make sense out of what's happening. If you have --selected-- a PART that has Keyboard Control OFF (even any PART 9-16), then what happens is that ONLY the selected PART will sound. Even though the --selected-- PART has Keyboard Control as OFF, when --selected--, the current PART ignores keyboard control and plays as if keyboard control was ON. Simultaneously, ALL other PARTs except for the currently selected PART will "pretend" like they have keyboard control set to OFF. So what happens here is that if you SELECT a PART with keyboard control as OFF - then only the selected PART will see the local Montage piano keys.

If you are playing a Performance which requires several PARTs playing simultaneously (such as pianos that split layers across several PARTs) - then if you either turn off keyboard control or load the PARTs into 9-16 - then selecting any Keyboard Control = OFF PART will "mess up" that sound since only one out of the many PARTs will sound. The cure is not to use keyboard control and single-part "audition" (selecting a PART with keyboard control=off) for multi-PART instruments. Multi-PART instruments should (for local Montage Keyboard Control), generally, not participate in having any of the PARTs set to Keyboard Control = OFF or loaded in PARTs 9-16.

Certainly, you can break this convention if you know exactly what's going to happen and have a way to manage the consequences.

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the excellent information above, and great job explaining how it works. 🙂 That explains why I was having an issue adjusting the "Kbd Cntrl" option for the Parts within my Performance. I had a misconception of how it worked and didn't realize that selecting an individual Part that has keyboard control set to off, allows for auditioning that part. This makes sense now. Do you know if it's possible to turn keyboard control on or off using the physical buttons on the Montage, or can this only be done via the touch screen?

Thanks!

The touch screen is the easiest way to access the Keyboard Control On/Off feature. There is a way to use buttons - but it is not direct access. It boils down to using the arrow keys so the keyboard control button is highlighted - then press [ENTER] to toggle keyboard control.

You can press:

Optional step 1) [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) button (since only PARTs 1-8 can toggle the keyboard control, no need to access 9-16 so it does not matter if you are in "PERFORMANCE CONTROL" or "PART CONTROL" mode). This step will "undo" the highlight vertical position -- which you may or may not want to reset.
2) Press Number A [1]-[8] depending on the PART you want to select to toggle Keyboard Control
3) If the vertical position was reset (optional step 1), then press the DOWN ARROW button 3 times.
4) Press [ENTER] to toggle Keyboard Control. OR press [DEC/NO] to force keyboard control OFF no matter what the previous state. OR press [INC/YES] to force keyboard control ON no matter what the previous state.

NOTE: If you have previously pressed the down-arrow button twice to select the keyboard control section -- then you do not have redo this as long as you select a used PART. With the keyboard control icon selected (say on PART 1) - you can switch to PART 3 and, assuming it's an assigned PART in PART3, PART 3's keyboard control icon will be selected.

NOTE: If you change to a PART that is empty (shows the [+] meaning it is free to add a new PART) - then the position of the selection will be reset. When switching back to a used (non-empty) PART, the keyboard control icon will not be selected and you will have to press the DOWN ARROW button a few times again to get it highlighted.

This is all fairly messy relative to the touchscreen given there's no direct access to Keyboard Control outside of the touchscreen.

Thanks Jason for sharing your knowledge of the Montage. You definitely know this keyboard well!

I have had this keyboard for about a month, and I'm very impressed with it so far. However, I'm having one major issue with sound clipping while playing within a performance. I'll provide some additional details tomorrow, since I've run into a problem adding some attachments tonight.

Thanks again!