Synth Forum

Clear all

Does Montage AWM2 have the same issues with Portamento?

4 Posts
2 Users
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter

I stumbled upon an issue which I don't know how to resolve it yet. Phil has been very helpful but I'm still struggling to make my MOTIF XF sound like Kronos and some VSTs that I have used before. Here is the original post:

Original Post by Me

I originally was thinking that the problem of a non-smooth portamento can be addressed by assigning the velocity to the portamento time. I finally managed to do simulate it by using MIDIPipe and it didn't work the way I was expecting. I couldn't get a Kronos like string with smooth transition between notes and it looks I found another problem meanwhile trying to solve something different!

I also found some information on line about PORTAMENTO in AWM2. Like a post on this website:
Portamento Issue

or this video on youtube:
Portamento Issue

Now can some one confirm if problem #1 and #2 exists in MONTAGE?

Posted : 23/12/2016 6:28 am
Posts: 7963
Illustrious Member

I pulled up an AWM2 performance "Fat Sine" and took a look. I can hear some aliasing, but using a parameter like "Legato Slope" dialed up to max reduces the effect such that I doubt it will be apparent in "the mix" for a live situation. If I was playing a solo piece without any other instrumentation - then maybe it would be noticeable. Even a studio mix I think would bury the aliasing.

I was able to "glide" up and down pressing with a palm instead of finger to minimize the sound of keys - I could have used earphones as a means to isolate as well (instead). What I produced was something similar to the ipad youtube video (expected "proper" glide of a sine).

As the 10/10/2010 post on the Motif XF - legato slope is available on the Montage as in the Motif XF. I doubt there have been any changes to portamento given the highly evolutionary nature of most of the sound-producing building blocks.

That said, I believe tests can be still be produced (using Montage) which demonstrate less than desirable outcomes. However, I also believe most of the "issues" can be mitigated and satisfy the needs of most playing situations.

Posted : 23/12/2016 12:21 pm
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter

Well how about the octave issue? That sounds unacceptable. Here is how to simulate it:

-create a voice with two elements (with two string samples)
-coarse on of them to 1 or 2 octaves higher
-set the portamento to on, time1,2 or rate1,2 so it sounds as desired

now try to perform a trill. If the time between two notes are short enough MOTIF XF cannot create a correct portamento. It goes crazy and plays a note from one or two octaves higher/lower depending on the setting.

I can mitigate this by using PEG but the sample will sound synthesized

I also disagree with this not being audible in the mix. May be for a weak and bad sounding strings or synths but if you build a powerful voluminous sound it is definitely no what I want. Can someone explain a bit more? and confirm if both issues still exist?
1- First issue, trill and wrong portamento as in my original post
2- non-smooth transition

Really appreciate it if anyone can help me fixing it.

My concern is the issue #1 at the moment. Because as I said, it's wrong. #2 is not wrong it's bad and unpleasant and I can live with it.

Posted : 23/12/2016 2:54 pm
Posts: 7963
Illustrious Member

"Not audible in the mix" depends on the sample of course. I tested "Fat Sine" and not anything else. Depending on the loop points and phase relationship on a keybank-to-keybank comparison - your mileage may vary. As I mentioned - the performance of Montage is not going to significantly outclass Motif XF since I believe the portamento implementation is the same. I do not know which IC is responsible for the portamento. Vs the XF I believe the tone generator is upgraded. But I believe the portamento "core" logic is lifted verbatim. My main feedback was in response to GospelMusician's demo of an iPad doing what he had issues getting Yamaha keyboards to do - and using "Fat Sine" - one can get results similar to the iPad demo on Montage.

I didn't do further testing because it was a little difficult to discern what issue #1 and issue #2 were since I didn't see labels for each issue in the post.

Testing the "string theory" - I believe the Montage performs in this category as the Motif did. I hear a synth, not string samples during the portamento glide time of strings setup as you described and oscillating between two keys at extremes.

I get better results if I decrease the time around 40 and "run up" or "run down" the notes vs using two discrete keys that are far apart to let Montage play the entire portamento range. This is easiest going from a white to white key - a bit harder going black to black - and a bit harder still to "pull off" going from a white key to a black key.

It would probably be best to spell out:

Mode, Time (value), Time Mode, Legato Slope (value) you want tested. The values are going to transfer direct from Motif XF to Montage.

Posted : 23/12/2016 8:35 pm

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us