Jason,

It's Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium...and I'm trying to find the bass drum to amend it's level

Meanwhile, before possibly trying to record this drum ARP to the pattern sequencer (which is currently on part 8 of my performance),I first want to check with u guys how I'm going to be able to also incoroporate a click track ....which at the moment I have running on a seperate performace part (3)..assigned to Right output (as opposed to main L&R)

I'm wondering how am I going to be able to sync this click track timing to the pattern sequencer?

I mostly need this click for my intro/count-in but also for the bridge part of the track I am working on.

[quotePost id=120129]Meanwhile, before possibly trying to record this drum ARP to the pattern sequencer (which is currently on part 8 of my performance),I first want to check with u guys how I'm going to be able to also incoroporate a click track ....which at the moment I have running on a seperate performace part (3)..assigned to Right output (as opposed to main L&R)

I'm wondering how am I going to be able to sync this click track timing to the pattern sequencer?

I mostly need this click for my intro/count-in but also for the bridge part of the track I am working on. [/quotePost]

Same "trick" applies, you can record the click track to the Pattern Sequencer, and have it playback along with your Drum Track's Pattern, too.

The Pattern Sequencer is oddly named, and much of its features are similarly oddly named, and they've never really introduced it as what it is, seemingly preferring to muddy the waters with the perception that it's a Sequencer, so it fulfils checkpoint marketing box ticking, I suspect.

Be that as it may, for what it actually is, regardless of its naming, it's very good... specifically... as a sketch pad, as a backing track maker and for rough and ready, direct input (not screen based) editing of those backing tracks and sketches.

I understand it's a foreboding thing, the Pattern Sequencer, both because of the naming issues and the ways Yamaha introduces it... and both of them before we get to the weird and funky UI and operation on the screen.

So please excuse this excursion to explanation rather than tutorial or instruction, in the hope this helps you see that it's well worth the effort to get over the humps required to become familiar with exploiting this somewhat handy yet misnomered little super tool...

First of all... recalibrate your brain to primarily thinking of it as being able to Sequence (place in order) differing Patterns you recorded, not sequencing notes to help you make the Patterns. You have to record the patterns yourself, and do a good job of it, because note editing is brutally minimal. This is not a note sequencer, it's a Pattern Sequencer.

Patterns can be as short as 1 bar, and as much as 256 bars long, but they can also be any subsection of the Pattern you've recorded, from the beginning. You can use any length of bars recorded as a sub pattern and insert this into a sequence of patterns. This is a super important "hack" to massively extend the usefulness of the Pattern Sequencer, and goes a long ways towards helping with drum tracks and click tracks, and bass lines, and chord sequences, too.

Unfortunately, the page of the menu system of using the Pattern Sequencer for sequencing patterns is insanely barren and nondescript, to the point that it's comical.

This is it:

No kidding, that's the most powerful screen on your MODX/Montage, that can bring all of its features to bear in Patterns Sequenced... or Chained, as they call it. But you're actually sequencing patterns. Or Chaining them.

But Sequencing Patterns makes more sense, because you can use subsections of your Patterns as part of your overall Sequence of Patterns.

There's one more super power you should know about... that you can make Patterns Play the moment you hit a key, which means you can sync Pattern Playback with Arpeggio Playback.

So if you don't want to record your click track into a Pattern, you don't have to. You can merely set your Pattern Sequence (Chain) to begin Play when you hit a key, turn on Arps, and as soon as you hit a key your click arp and your Pattern of drums and bass and chords get underway, too.

If you want a step by step as to how to record arps into the Pattern Sequencer... I think almost everyone else is better equipped to write that than me... but if you insist, I'll give it a shot.

I can't get that image to show up... so here's a link to a very quick and somewhat cryptic video about it:

https://youtu.be/6d5i53Emfa0

Thanks Andrew,

I actually realised that I HAD actually previously used the pattern sequencer and chain function about a year back when I was making a Xmas music quiz creating song intros via some Patterns..forgot all about that so was pretty rusty on using that tech when I tried today ... but I'm now up and running.

Would still like to get to the bottom of why I can't seemingly identify the relevant drum ARP key in order to amend the Bass Drum velocity levels of the Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium ARP. I've tried every flippin' key on the keyboard!

Would still like to get to the bottom of why I can't seemingly identify the relevant drum ARP key in order to amend the Bass Drum velocity levels of the Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium ARP. I've tried every flippin' key on the keyboard!

Select the PART containing your Drum Kit and Arpeggio. Set it so that it is ARP HOLD... (Hold [SHIFT] + the [Arp On] box of the PART to activate HOLD).
Drop into EDIT on that PART
Touch "Drum Key" in the lower right corner to view the pages that review what is assigned to each KEY in your Kit, C0-C6.
Left column: touch "Osc/Tune" to view each assigned Waveform, Key by Key.
Activate the "Keyboard Select" option so that when you press a KEY it will recall its data.

Each Key that is asked to sound will cause the little green radio button to flash in response to a Note On event. This is the easiest way to find out what drum keys are used in any particular Arp Phrase.

Tap "C1", to recall its data, you will see that it is the Key that is flashing in response to the Kick Drum in the Arp Phrase you specified.

Touch "Level/Pan" to view Drum Key C1's response as to Output Level and its response to incoming Velocity.

"Level" is self-explanatory... 1-127; This represents the maximum level in response to key on (full output level).
"Level/Vel" (how much output level is achieved according to current input velocity) requires an explanation:
When "Level/Veocity" = +0 there is no increase or decrease in output level according to the input velocity. The Key simply plays at the "Level" as set.
When "Level/Velocity" = a positive value means more input velocity will be required to get to the output Level as set by the "Level" parameter.
__As this parameter setting approaches +32, you will require more input velocity to get the full output level.
+32 is linear response.
If you go past +33 you will create a response so that lower velocities do not sound at all. For example, at +63 only the very strongest input Velocity will cause any output Level. (Values past +32 are useful when you only want the strongest hits to register, and softer velocities to be ignored).

As you lower the "Level/Velocity" setting through positive values, you will notice that the sound gets louder - this is because less velocity is needed to get full output level. Making something Velocity Sensitive means you require moreINPUT to get more OUTPUT. The positive scaling increases Velocity Sensitivity as you move between +0 and +32... beyond +33 you are making lower velocities silent... meaning MORE velocity is needed to even sound at all... until at maximum (+63) only the strongest Velocities create any output at all.

Negative values work opposite from positive values.

Hope that helps.

Well - you do make it harder to help you when you don't answer people's questions or respond to their comments.

Sorry Andrew...I thought I had responded on all queries covered in this thread

My Montage keys only go down to C1 (unless I change via the octive button)

Got it!...volume now adjusted

Andrew wrote:

Why does changing the velocity setting here affect the volume when the velocity isn't being changed at all? I can't find the curve that might be being usedd.

Andrew is confusing Tone Generator (Key) settings with Arpeggio settings (which includes the velocity of the Note data within the Arpeggio Phrase). The velocity of the Arp Phrase is being OFFSET by percentage...

The KEY settings refer to the MODX Tone Generator itself (the synth). If and when you go to Arpeggio settings and offset the Velocity setting you are offsetting (by %) the amount of Velocity with which the Arp Phrase plays back. Arp Phrases can playback at the "Original" velocity with which they were recorded (Velocity Mode = Original), or you can set them to playback at the velocity of the note you use to trigger them, "Velocity Mode = Thru).

Key settings would include both the Drum Key "Level" and "Level/Vel"
An Arpeggio setting would include the so-called Arp Play FX which offset the Velocity and Gate Time (duration)... and are among the parameters found on the Part's Arpeggio screens (Common, Individual, Advanced).

Drum Keys are often set to ignore Note Off (Rcv Note Off = Off) so "Gate Time" does not apply in most kits unless you edit the KEY, specifically to Receive Note Off.

Hmmm - for me it is key A0 - and adjusting it's level changes the volume

I'm using the Pop Rock Drum Arpeggio "MA_8Beat Medium" as indicated by Colin in his post. So for me it is "C1" as the Kick Drum.

For "Real Drums Kit" Preset, MA_8Beat Medium only uses two drum keys. C1 for bass drum and F#1 for high hat (close).

"Real Drums Kit" sets the Arpeggio->Advanced menu "Fixed SD/BD" to ON. This has an impact on the MIDI notes. If I turn "Fixed SD/BD" OFF, then hex 24 (C1 MIDI note) becomes 21 (A0 MIDI note).

The full sequence (without loop and note-off events removed) is:

[code type=markup]
Time Note # V. MIDI Note
51920857 24 44 C 1
51920857 2A 44 F# 1
51921119 2A 22 F# 1
51921378 2A 55 F# 1
51921642 24 33 C 1
51921643 2A 22 F# 1
51921902 24 44 C 1
51921902 2A 44 F# 1
51922161 2A 22 F# 1
51922425 2A 55 F# 1
51922683 2A 22 F# 1
51922947 24 44 C 1
51922947 2A 44 F# 1
51923207 2A 22 F# 1
51923466 2A 55 F# 1
51923729 24 33 C 1
51923730 2A 22 F# 1
51923988 24 44 C 1
51923988 2A 44 F# 1
51924247 2A 22 F# 1
51924511 2A 55 F# 1
51924771 2A 22 F# 1
51925035 24 44 C 1
51925035 2A 44 F# 1
51925293 2A 22 F# 1
51925552 2A 55 F# 1
51925815 24 33 C 1
51925815 2A 22 F# 1
51926073 24 44 C 1
51926073 2A 44 F# 1
51926337 2A 22 F# 1
51926596 2A 55 F# 1
51926861 2A 22 F# 1
51927119 24 44 C 1
51927119 2A 44 F# 1
51927382 2A 22 F# 1
51927639 2A 55 F# 1
51927903 24 33 C 1
51927903 2A 22 F# 1
51928163 24 44 C 1
51928163 2A 44 F# 1
51928421 2A 22 F# 1
51928684 2A 55 F# 1
51928948 2A 22 F# 1
[/code]

Additional Note: Time starts wherever the timestamp begins on my computer - so differences between each line in terms of time (time deltas) are more meaningful than the absolute time value. I didn't calculate out the deltas - but you can easily see notes hit at the same time due to the same timestamp and do the math if you really were curious about note lengths.

Used arpeggio output (Arp MIDI Out = ON, Arpeggio Loop = OFF, Arpeggio Hold = ON, struck a key) method and MacOS "Pocket MIDI" to capture. Under Windows I would have used MIDI-OX. The suggestion previously was to use Cubase or some other piano roll note output since it's easier than putting values into a spreadsheet and calculating MIDI note numbers.

Differences in C1 (the standard "BD" labeled bass drum) and A0 is due to the "Fixed SD/BD" setting - not due to different waveforms. You can toggle this setting on any drum kit and there's a possibility (if the kick arpeggio isn't using C1 inside the ARP) that this setting (when fixed=ON) will alter the ARP's note number for bass drum to C1. There is the same idea for the snare.

BTW: adjusting the level of the bass drum was mentioned before. But if you want an alternative way to get to the same place, you can use this "Fixed SD/BD" so you can use the sliders (aka faders) to control the levels.

Without "Fixed SD/BD" for this ARP - the bass drum will be A0. A0 is not a note that can be adjusted using the sliders. However, when you turn on "Fixed SD/BD" - A0 will now be forced to C1, which is the "standard" BD. The standard BD (MIDI Note C1) can be level controlled using the slider.

So ...

You could turn "Fixed SD/BD" on and then use the sliders to adjust the bass drum level.

Slider 1 = BD (Bass Drum) level -- must be MIDI note C1 (or another note that is Fixed SD/BD=ON adjusted)
Slider 2 = SD (Snare Drum) level -- must be MIDI note D1 (or another note that is Fixed SD/BD=ON adjusted)
... for reference:
Slider 3 = HHC (High Hat Closed) level -- must be MIDI note F#1
Slider 4 = HHP (High Hat Pedal) level -- must be MIDI note G#1
Slider 5 = HHO (High Hat Open) level -- must be MIDI note A#1
Slider 6 = LT (Low Tom) level -- must be MIDI note A1
Slider 7 = HT (High Tom) level -- must be MIDI note D2
Slider 8 = CC (Crash Cymbal) level -- must be MIDI note C#2

Honestly, I don't know the exact mechanism for the keyboard to determine something off-C1 is a bass drum or something off-D1 is a snare drum.

I tried assigning A0 to a snare drum to see if the "Fixed SD/BD" would pull A0 into a snare drum MIDI value (D1). It didn't do this - it remained as a bass drum.

Therefore, I wonder if maybe there's a standard list of alternate MIDI notes that are also recognized as bass drums (by presumption of the keyboard). A hard-coded list of alternates if you will. This can be tested by creating user drum ARPs (fixed note) that play through 16 notes starting with C0-D#1 then another ARP playing through E1-G2 (the next 16 notes). Note: you can skip all of the standard MIDI values I listed for each slider -- that'd create a slightly different list of notes to try. And the deal here would be to see which notes are remapped to C1 or D1 when playing your custom ARP. This could start to hint towards which notes are hardcoded to BD or SD.

Or, I wondered if the arpeggio has something to specially label which notes are BD and which are SD. There are lots of bytes in the arpeggio data I haven't been able to figure out. For this the discovery process would be to run through the preset drum arps and see if you can get any replacement notes (for BD or SD) that do not agree with the previous investigation. This would start to indicate that these are not fixed but specified likely in the ARP itself.

Also -- related to if the ARP itself sets this - creating a user ARP you would not have a way to set this. I think one could just create a drum arp with A0 and F#1 (or any other notes) and then see if "Fixed SD/BD" changes A0 to C1 like it does for the preset ARP we're dealing with in this thread. It's not conclusive -- but at least you could know that user ARPs act the same as this preset arpeggio.

Of course, Yamaha could short-circuit this and show the cards of how this is done. It's not typically done - but there have been surprises.

For using the built-in content - knowing exactly how it works isn't necessary. Just hit the "Fixed SD/BD" button and see if any notes change to C1 or D1. I personally would prefer to know all of the ins and outs. However, I also don't think I would gain much by learning the exact mechanism. That's just my personal view for my own usage. Someone else may validly have rationale for having to know this.

The best thing they could do is enhance the sequencer/arpeggiator to include a darn piano roll/drum editor. Roland Fantom/FA has many bad sides on the sound front, but the UI just kills the Montage/MODX. Same with that new Akai MPC Keys. Because of the sound engine, Yamaha could keep these synths relevant well into the future with an addition like that.

Right now the sequencer/arpeggiator is sufficiently powerful and has an absurd amount of arpeggios, but it's like flying blind and I don't get the value out of it I think I should - its just too much when all I want to do is put in a quick backing pattern.