Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Editing a preset drum ARP - possible?

42 Posts
7 Users
0 Likes
764 Views
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

I ask because the I'm struggling to find the right key to amend the level/Vel

One thing to try is just play single notes yourself until you hear one that sounds like the one you don't want to hear. Just keep in mind that the same sound might be assigned to more than one key.

Here is one site that shows a version of a 'standard' MIDI percussion key map. But drum kits may not use these same assignments.
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/midi_7.htm

Here is an article by Blake that shows how to work with drum kits and transfer an arp to the pattern sequencer if you want to go that route.
https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/music-production/blake-s-take-level-up-your-drums-3

Also keep in mind that there might be more than one arpeggio at play in a performance.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 5:23 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I'm actually trying to increase my bass drum volume which I guess should be Key C1 (according to that MIDI map) but I can't get any reaction when I turn off that ARP key or indeed adjust it's level pan, implying seemingly that it's not the correct key to adjust...but then I've turned every other key off (apart from the ride cymbal key that I want to keep on)...so I'm struggling now to solve this 'minor' blemish on my drum ARP.

Any further tips welcolme?

The recording of the ARP to the pattern sequencer using Blakes tutorial will be a project for me to get into when I have some more free time

 
Posted : 20/01/2023 8:48 am
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

I can't get any reaction when I turn off that ARP key or indeed adjust it's level pan, implying seemingly that it's not the correct key to adjust...but then I've turned every other key off

An ARP can play ANY key at all - not just 'drum' keys.

Did you try my earlier suggestion?

One thing to try is just play single notes yourself until you hear one that sounds like the one you don't want to hear. Just keep in mind that the same sound might be assigned to more than one key.

Generally there is one (could be more) key that TRIGGERS an arp. That is, the key you press does NOT make a sound itself but instead causes the MIDI phrase of an arpeggio to play.

That arpeggio can potentially play ANY key(s) on the keyboard - not just those keys assigned to the drum part or that are in the note range you specify for the drum part.

The 'brute force' way to find the key you need is to just try every one yourself to see which one(s) produce the sound you are hearing. Once you find the offending key(s) the solution may depend on whether that key is acually a drum key or not.

 
Posted : 20/01/2023 7:49 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

What's the preset ARP you're using? It should be listed under Arpeggio -> Individual. This would allow for anyone else to tell you what drum keys are employed by the ARP which may be helpful.

 
Posted : 20/01/2023 7:56 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Jason,

It's Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium...and I'm trying to find the bass drum to amend it's level

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 10:23 am
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Meanwhile, before possibly trying to record this drum ARP to the pattern sequencer (which is currently on part 8 of my performance),I first want to check with u guys how I'm going to be able to also incoroporate a click track ....which at the moment I have running on a seperate performace part (3)..assigned to Right output (as opposed to main L&R)

I'm wondering how am I going to be able to sync this click track timing to the pattern sequencer?

I mostly need this click for my intro/count-in but also for the bridge part of the track I am working on.

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 10:32 am
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

[quotePost id=120129]Meanwhile, before possibly trying to record this drum ARP to the pattern sequencer (which is currently on part 8 of my performance),I first want to check with u guys how I'm going to be able to also incoroporate a click track ....which at the moment I have running on a seperate performace part (3)..assigned to Right output (as opposed to main L&R)

I'm wondering how am I going to be able to sync this click track timing to the pattern sequencer?

I mostly need this click for my intro/count-in but also for the bridge part of the track I am working on. [/quotePost]

Same "trick" applies, you can record the click track to the Pattern Sequencer, and have it playback along with your Drum Track's Pattern, too.

The Pattern Sequencer is oddly named, and much of its features are similarly oddly named, and they've never really introduced it as what it is, seemingly preferring to muddy the waters with the perception that it's a Sequencer, so it fulfils checkpoint marketing box ticking, I suspect.

Be that as it may, for what it actually is, regardless of its naming, it's very good... specifically... as a sketch pad, as a backing track maker and for rough and ready, direct input (not screen based) editing of those backing tracks and sketches.

I understand it's a foreboding thing, the Pattern Sequencer, both because of the naming issues and the ways Yamaha introduces it... and both of them before we get to the weird and funky UI and operation on the screen.

So please excuse this excursion to explanation rather than tutorial or instruction, in the hope this helps you see that it's well worth the effort to get over the humps required to become familiar with exploiting this somewhat handy yet misnomered little super tool...

First of all... recalibrate your brain to primarily thinking of it as being able to Sequence (place in order) differing Patterns you recorded, not sequencing notes to help you make the Patterns. You have to record the patterns yourself, and do a good job of it, because note editing is brutally minimal. This is not a note sequencer, it's a Pattern Sequencer.

Patterns can be as short as 1 bar, and as much as 256 bars long, but they can also be any subsection of the Pattern you've recorded, from the beginning. You can use any length of bars recorded as a sub pattern and insert this into a sequence of patterns. This is a super important "hack" to massively extend the usefulness of the Pattern Sequencer, and goes a long ways towards helping with drum tracks and click tracks, and bass lines, and chord sequences, too.

Unfortunately, the page of the menu system of using the Pattern Sequencer for sequencing patterns is insanely barren and nondescript, to the point that it's comical.

This is it:

No kidding, that's the most powerful screen on your MODX/Montage, that can bring all of its features to bear in Patterns Sequenced... or Chained, as they call it. But you're actually sequencing patterns. Or Chaining them.

But Sequencing Patterns makes more sense, because you can use subsections of your Patterns as part of your overall Sequence of Patterns.

There's one more super power you should know about... that you can make Patterns Play the moment you hit a key, which means you can sync Pattern Playback with Arpeggio Playback.

So if you don't want to record your click track into a Pattern, you don't have to. You can merely set your Pattern Sequence (Chain) to begin Play when you hit a key, turn on Arps, and as soon as you hit a key your click arp and your Pattern of drums and bass and chords get underway, too.

If you want a step by step as to how to record arps into the Pattern Sequencer... I think almost everyone else is better equipped to write that than me... but if you insist, I'll give it a shot.

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 2:40 pm
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

I can't get that image to show up... so here's a link to a very quick and somewhat cryptic video about it:

https://youtu.be/6d5i53Emfa0

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 2:49 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

It's Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium...and I'm trying to find the bass drum to amend it's level

Thanks for the info.

Not sure I understand why but I was able to increase the volume of the entire ARP by:

1. Edit Part 1 Common
2. Arpeggio -> Individual - this lists all of the arps being used
3. Increase the Velocity setting

Don't know why changing the velocity setting affects the arp volume for ALL velocities but it seems to. Maybe others can explain.

A setting of 0 is very soft and a setting of 70% is MUCH louder.

What velocity setting are you using? Does setting it higher increase the volume for you?

Is that all you need or do you still need the bass drum in that ARP to be louder versus the other sounds in the arp?

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 5:12 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks Andrew,

I actually realised that I HAD actually previously used the pattern sequencer and chain function about a year back when I was making a Xmas music quiz creating song intros via some Patterns..forgot all about that so was pretty rusty on using that tech when I tried today ... but I'm now up and running.

Would still like to get to the bottom of why I can't seemingly identify the relevant drum ARP key in order to amend the Bass Drum velocity levels of the Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium ARP. I've tried every flippin' key on the keyboard!

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 6:13 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

Would still like to get to the bottom of why I can't seemingly identify the relevant drum ARP key in order to amend the Bass Drum velocity levels of the Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium ARP. I've tried every flippin' key on the keyboard!

1. Open the 'New Oak Custom Kit'
2. Edit part 1
3. Go to the 'Arpeggion Individual' screen
4. Select ARP #6 and replace it with #6479 - your arp
5. Make sure the Arp Master and Arp Part switches are both on
6. Go back to the performance home screen
7. Highlight G-8 in the part 1 box - this is the UPPER keyboard range limit for the part
8. Press and hold C3 - middle C - keep holding the key down for step 9
9. Listen to the arp while you use the dial and change G-8 down to F#1
10. Keep holding middle C and notice the change when you go from F#1 to F1
11. Notice that the sound disappears when you get to G#0

Now you have identified the range that the arp notes are playing in.

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 6:33 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Would still like to get to the bottom of why I can't seemingly identify the relevant drum ARP key in order to amend the Bass Drum velocity levels of the Pop Rock MA_8Beat Medium ARP. I've tried every flippin' key on the keyboard!

Select the PART containing your Drum Kit and Arpeggio. Set it so that it is ARP HOLD... (Hold [SHIFT] + the [Arp On] box of the PART to activate HOLD).
Drop into EDIT on that PART
Touch "Drum Key" in the lower right corner to view the pages that review what is assigned to each KEY in your Kit, C0-C6.
Left column: touch "Osc/Tune" to view each assigned Waveform, Key by Key.
Activate the "Keyboard Select" option so that when you press a KEY it will recall its data.

Each Key that is asked to sound will cause the little green radio button to flash in response to a Note On event. This is the easiest way to find out what drum keys are used in any particular Arp Phrase.

Tap "C1", to recall its data, you will see that it is the Key that is flashing in response to the Kick Drum in the Arp Phrase you specified.

Touch "Level/Pan" to view Drum Key C1's response as to Output Level and its response to incoming Velocity.

"Level" is self-explanatory... 1-127; This represents the maximum level in response to key on (full output level).
"Level/Vel" (how much output level is achieved according to current input velocity) requires an explanation:
When "Level/Veocity" = +0 there is no increase or decrease in output level according to the input velocity. The Key simply plays at the "Level" as set.
When "Level/Velocity" = a positive value means more input velocity will be required to get to the output Level as set by the "Level" parameter.
__As this parameter setting approaches +32, you will require more input velocity to get the full output level.
+32 is linear response.
If you go past +33 you will create a response so that lower velocities do not sound at all. For example, at +63 only the very strongest input Velocity will cause any output Level. (Values past +32 are useful when you only want the strongest hits to register, and softer velocities to be ignored).

As you lower the "Level/Velocity" setting through positive values, you will notice that the sound gets louder - this is because less velocity is needed to get full output level. Making something Velocity Sensitive means you require moreINPUT to get more OUTPUT. The positive scaling increases Velocity Sensitivity as you move between +0 and +32... beyond +33 you are making lower velocities silent... meaning MORE velocity is needed to even sound at all... until at maximum (+63) only the strongest Velocities create any output at all.

Negative values work opposite from positive values.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 7:56 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

Tap "C1", to recall its data, you will see that it is the Key that is flashing in response to the Kick Drum in the Arp Phrase you specified.

Hmmm - for me it is key A0 - and adjusting it's level changes the volume

Earlier I had mentioned this as it relates to OP's question

1. Edit Part 1 Common
2. Arpeggio -> Individual - this lists all of the arps being used
3. Increase the Velocity setting

Why does changing the velocity setting here affect the volume when the velocity isn't being changed at all? I can't find the curve that might be being usedd.

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 8:36 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Well - you do make it harder to help you when you don't answer people's questions or respond to their comments.

Sorry Andrew...I thought I had responded on all queries covered in this thread

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 8:38 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

My Montage keys only go down to C1 (unless I change via the octive button)

 
Posted : 21/01/2023 8:54 pm
Page 2 / 3
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us