The fact that the waveforms to not have contiguous category/sub-category designations has been flagged previously.

The list already exists. The waveform listing in the data list has all waveforms listed by number with main and sub categories shown.

The latest data list (PDF) is included in the 1.60 firmware ZIP file. The data list always has "dl" as part of the filename.

NOTE: you do not really want these to be contiguous now. Once the order got "off the tracks" - sometime in Montage history (pre-release) - once released, the order was "cast in stone". Because rearranging these would cause more problems than would be solved.

Hello Jason - yes, it has indeed. The v1.60 Waveform List is unchanged - still 6,347, and will probably never change. I've been using the 'Waveform Search' engine for the most part, but although they are categorised by name, they are not numbered. It's just that I find it easier to skip through the numbers with the 'Element' view on screen than switching to and from the 'Waveform Search' screen. But I don't know the number groups to skip to, being mixed up.

On a similar note, is there a listing of Yamaha's cryptic code letters used in the Waveform names? Like 'ff ff'' and 'L+' and 'St' and 'Sw' and so on?

These (mnemonics) have been decoded previously.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/confusing-waveform-naming-convention

"L" and "R" are for left and right (as opposed to ST=stereo).

The + and - business is explained here:

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/cp4-data-list-abbreviations

... applies to Montage or any other Yamaha keyboard.

Hello - working with Elements is both interesting and rewarding, but the further I get the more frustrating it becomes. Initially I thought the Listing followed the Category list, but it does not. It starts off not too far adrift up to Element 1921 (of 6347) and then goes ape, reverting to previous Categories and diving off in all directions, then reverting again, and so on. Does anyone know of a categorised listing? Or taken the trouble to create one and would be willing to share it?

Rod,
I read your posts and often have no idea what you are talking about. The AWM2 Element contains a Waveform. Ok I understand you are mixing up the Element (the set of parameters that turn a Waveform into a playable entity) with the Waveform (which organizes individual Samples). That's fine, so you mean "Waveform #1921 of 6347" okay, forgiven.

The DATA LIST has such a list. A list of the Waveforms... names and numbers.

The v1.60 Waveform List is unchanged - still 6,347, and will probably never change. I've been using the 'Waveform Search' engine for the most part, but although they are categorised by name, they are not numbered. It's just that I find it easier to skip through the numbers with the 'Element' view on screen than switching to and from the 'Waveform Search' screen. But I don't know the number groups to skip to, being mixed up.

All AWM2 Waveforms are numbered! You can view the number on the "Osc/Tune" screen. Not sure what information you gleen from the number. Stay on the Osc/Tune screen and increment through Waveforms.

The MONTAGE can have 2048 User Waveform assembled in a User Bank, and truly an unlimited number of FM-X creations. To say what "will probably never change" on MONTAGE, means you have some information maybe the rest of us are not privilege to at this time.

On a similar note, is there a listing of Yamaha's cryptic code letters used in the Waveform names? Like 'ff ff'' and 'L+' and 'St' and 'Sw' and so on?

But you want to view just the numbers so these cryptic code letters shouldn't matter, right? I think if these were not a mystery to you, you wouldn't be confused by them, this I understand, as well.

p is pianissimo (soft)
f is forte (loud)
ff is double forte and is louder than forte
mp and mf are medium soft, and medium loud
These are musical terms... and describe the the type of strike recorded for the sample.

Hello BM - of course you're right - I did confuse 'Element' with 'Waveform'. Sorry! I great;y prefer to 'audition' waveforms in the 'Osc/Tune' screen rather than the 'Waveform Search' screen, as it's much quicker. But the waveforms don't follow the Categories. For example, 'Piano' waveforms run from 0001 to 0087 (say) and then disappear, and re-appear from 955 to 1145 (say) then disappear, and pop up again from 2878 to 2936 (say) and so on. All the Categories are like this so far as I can make out. So it would be nice to know the groups of numbers each Category is assigned, so that I can spin the data wheel through the ones in between. Simply a way of speeding up the audition process - which can be tedious but essential.

Tehe! Yamaha don't confide in me, unfortunately, as to the number and order of waveforms on board - I was thinking there of all the pre-sets that have used them, and imagine that changing the order of the waveforms would screw up the assembly of the pre-sets ... ? That's how I think it works, probably not how it does work!

Thanks for explaining the codes! As you say, I suspected but didn't get the repeats (ff or pp) for sure - what about things like 'L+' and 'R-' is that Pan left or right to greater or lesser degrees? 'St' stereo? How about 'Sw' - maybe 'switch' but what does that indicate? 'Mn'? Quite a few altogether. Gives me the way it was recorded and therefore an idea of how it's meant to be used.

Mn is short for Mono. I think "SW" has multiple velocity samples in one waveform. Somewhere around here I have notes. Yes, St is stereo. If you would have clicked on the link - these are all described there too. Please click on resources given.

Even though the data list doesn't group all the same categories together (because this is just "how it is") -- your Montage does. Use the sample-level category search and the main/sub categories which will show ALL waveforms which fit the selected main/sub category.

If you want this on paper - there are free places to extract tables from PDF and produce an excel spreadsheet. I could do this for you -- not right now though.

speeding up the audition process

There is no speeding up an audition process, you are doing what we call "speeding up the rejection process". What that means is, you've decided that auditioning is a long and tedious process, and are bent on making it so. Once you have decided that you need to try out all of the Piano waves, or all of the snare drum waves, or all of any type of wave, you wind up being in a hurry to hear or try them all... rather than getting to the task of building a sound. If you go through all of the waves and reach the end, what have you accomplished? You will have rejected them all because you really weren't looking FOR something. (I'm not saying you're doing this, just that it very common).

You can bog down in this process... many people do this with Arpeggios, not realizing that you can't hear them all. If you are looking for something that is so very specific, you're better off recording it yourself. When you have large numbers of items, be they 6000 Waveforms or 10,000 Arpeggios, if you simply want to "speed up the process", do what I call "Select and reject", you're better off auditioning finished instrument sounds that already use the Waveform or already apply the Arpeggio.

Then if you find an instrument sound that uses a particular Waveform that you like, you can start to build from there. Try swapping the originally programmed Waveform with one you are curious about. Use one that has a "+", then switch to one that has a "-", can you hear the difference... are you listening that closely? It's a skill. Try them together. Can you hear the difference? But if you find yourself wishing to "speed up", stop and ask, am I attempting to "hear them all" because I'm not really sure what I'm looking for, and do I know what I'm looking at?

By approaching editing from work done by factory programmers, not only can learn by what they've done, but you wind up not being in a hurry.

Hope that helps.

Hello BM - I understand what you're saying, and I thank you for it. It's very uplifting that a Master should take the time to coach an amateur, to explain things clearly - which I don't! By 'speeding things up' I meant getting from one relevant group of waveforms, to the next relevant group as quickly as possible, to do which I need to know the numbers involved. Not to rush through the relevant waveforms themselves. That wouldn't work. It's true I reject many on first hearing them paired with my currently selected 'base' sound - I can't explain how that works, it just does! But as many, or more, are noted as possibles, and a few are definites. I try to limit a session to a group of about 40 or so waveforms - more than that becomes unmanageable - like to know how others handle this initial selection process. My favourite instrument is the piano, and I am still experimenting with the first 87 waveforms ... only another 6,260 to go ... though I do go on random excursions now and then. I will try out your suggestions too - my hearing isn't near as good as it used to be, so I could get some parameters for what I hear, and what I don't any more. Nice idea, thanks!