You could also get a volume pedal and place it on the outputs so you have a true volume pedal that is not software limited. Currently, you're not happy with the pedal override feature where values are set to stored settings rather than using the current pedal position and "snapping" to it. An analog volume pedal would override everything.

Still, I don't think having some global settings to change how this works would be bad assuming the default setting allows for the function to remain the same as it is today - and an alternate setting to make this "snap" to the pedal position. The difficult part of implementing this is that the "snap" or not "snap" feature is in more places than the foot controller. It's also in the sliders, knobs, ribbon, etc.etc. every controller. So the difficulty would be deciding which controllers this affects and which it doesn't - since your request is one of many - others have requested the same ability to tweak other controllers (not just FC) - and having fine control over it all (like a matrix of on/off for many controllers) would start to become messy.

USB volume control seems easy enough. You're soft on the need of it - so maybe there's not critical mass to make it happen - but seems like a straight-forward thing to implement if there's a reasonable use-case which requires it.

Jason sorry but honestly, why have I to spend money, time to find out right hardware and not be sure that obtain the same clean signal passing through at external pedal when I have just spent money to by yamaha pedal that should do this kind of function.
I have had fantom g 10 years ago that do this function in a easy and simple way without any problem.....I have had a lot of other keyboard that doesn't have the pedal volume problem pass from one program to the other.
Now I have spent a lot of money to by montage and also original yamaha volume pedal. So please, let me pretend to ask to yamaha a good software implementation and not a poor control pedal implementation like the current one.
Bad minister please take a note to this firmware update. Thanks.

Andrea wrote:

I use montage to drive some vst on my pc and use montage audio to output signal, but foot controller hasn't any influence on usb audio volume....

My reaction to this is, well of course it doesn't. We understand what you want but you maybe asking for the wrong thing.

Perhaps you're asking for control over USB volume with a Foot Control when what you actual want is control over the volume of your VSTi... yes, it happens to be using USB to return through the Montage (as audio interface); but what you should be looking at is volume control over the external synth, (Foot Control over that should be easy enough to achieve). Basic 101.

USB Volume could represent scores of audio channels - the protocol allows for more individualized control, based on MIDI and its individual channel messages, like cc011 Expression, cc007 Main Channel Volume, cc004 Foot Control (Assignable)... these channel messages can be used to control the output level of the external device generating the audio... that is the signal returned to the audio interface. (Try to separate in your mind the Montage as a Keyboard/Controller, Montage as a Synthesizer Tone Generator, and Montage as an Audio/MIDI Interface.
(Can you name an audio interface that you can Foot Control... it's a rhetorical question)
Assign controllers to control the external synth tone generator (not the output from the audio interface).

Within Montage, you have a separate Volume setting control over returning USB audio, but "Foot Control" is more an Assignable control that can be applied to the external (VSTi) synth engine using standard MIDI commands. Exactly "how", can vary according to the VST synth your attempting to control. You don't mention which one you have, but if that is actually what you want, nothing prevents you from controlling its volume from Montage with either of the Assignable Foot Controllers.

No firmware change necessary.

Other things that I disappoint very much is the fact that if I use foot controller to adjust expression volume of one montage program and I swith to other montage program it happens that expression of new program recalled doesn't feel the position of foot controller and it is necessary to move again foot controller to modulate the expression for new program recalled.....

This is a preference that you can choose. If you want your controllers to Reset (default) when you recall a new program or if you want the controller to Hold their current position when you recall a new program, is a parameter you can set as your instrument's preference.

Press [UTILITY]
Touch "Settings" > "MIDI I/O"
Set "Controller Reset" = Hold

Controllers are devices that send MIDI channel messages, if you are not switching MIDI CHANNELS then the messages can be "reset" to what the MIDI protocol determines as the default value; below are listed the MIDI defaults and those that have been added by Yamaha:

(A "Reset All Controller" message is sent when you select a new program).

When a "Reset All Controllers" message is sent this will Reset the values set for the following controllers.
PITCH BEND CHANGE - 0 (center)
CHANNEL AFTER TOUCH - 0 (minimum)
MODULATION - 0 (minimum)
EXPRESSION - 127 (maximum)
BREATH CONTROLLER - 127 (maximum)
FOOT CONTROLLER 1 - 127 (maximum)
FOOT CONTROLLER 2 - 127 (maximum)
FOOT SWITCH - 0 (off)
RIBBON CONTROLLER - 0 (center)
ASSIGNABLE FUNCTION 1 - 0 (off)
ASSIGNABLE FUNCTION 2 - 0 (off)
MOTION SEQ HOLD - 0 (off)
SUSTAIN SWITCH - 0 (off)
SOSTENUTO SWITCH - 0 (off)
MOTION SEQ LANE 1 - 0 minimum when Polarity is to Unipolar, center when Polarity is set Bipolar
MOTION SEQ LANE 2 - 0 minimum when Polarity is to Unipolar, center when Polarity is set Bipolar
MOTION SEQ LANE 3 - 0 minimum when Polarity is to Unipolar, center when Polarity is set Bipolar
MOTION SEQ LANE 4 - 0 minimum when Polarity is to Unipolar, center when Polarity is set Bipolar
RPN - Not assigned, no change.

By selecting "Hold" your FC7 plugged into the Montage FC1 or FC2 jack will allow you to control the volume "live" even when switching Programs on the Montage, provided the Foot Controller's current Control Number is received by the tone engine in question (internal or external) to adjust its output level.

No firmware change necessary.

Bad mister now I'm out of home but as soon as possible I check for your suggestions. Thanks
I use kontakt to drive vst piano.
What I ask for is hold in the expression and not in the volume. If I drive the volume with pedal all my parts volume setting will be killed so I need hold function only in the expression midi message from foot control.
Is it possible in montage? If not I think it should be added in next firmware.
By the way with this feature on the main output all my volume problem and setting about any kind of signal that is sent to main out will be fixed in easy way....do you think that this is stupid request maybe....but pay attention to the fact that maybe some request have a solid bases....expecialy for who have just tested this good feature in Yamaha concurrence.
I read a lot of answers in this topics....a lot of tourn around....please consider that sometimes the straight way is appreciated by customer that spend 4k euro for good gig

Please wait until you are at your instrument to respond.

Bad Mister wrote:

Please wait until you are at your instrument to respond.

I'm in front of montage.....if I choose hold it remail all midi setting from previous program....it remail MW position...ribbon etc etc....

That's not what I need and what I want (I need and want that only expression remain not the other midi message)
I only need a easy and simple function.....that the expression pedal work in the position that it is for any program......
all other midi parameter I need and I want that will be reset from one program to the other.

So thanks for suggestion but it isn't what I need (and what I have had in other gig)

Second point (less important)....expression pedal doesn't work with kontakt ....auto learn doesn't fill it.......

Again I repeat my question. Is it possible to have a expression pedal function that act on main output so that act on all sound that it arrive in the main out?
If not I suggest to put it in next firmware
Thanks

Paying money for solutions is up to you. I'm offering possibilities not demanding you take me up on them. I don't mind you're requesting features - but it may take a while for them, if ever, to be realized. I do see the clarification about "expression volume" meaning expression, not volume ("expression amount"). So the suggestion is not applicable for expression unless you're trying to change the volume of the performances using the expression pedal - in which case the suggestion to use an analog pedal might fit what you're after. It's a moving target since it's not always clear what you're after.

If you are after controlling volume - there are different ways to do this. I can order a stereo volume pedal for $35. Lets say you got a screaming deal on a Montage (any of them) at $1500. $35/$1500 x 100 = 2.3% That's around 1/4 of sales tax around here. If that is what you're after - then maybe take the unfashionable approach until something more sleek comes along.

Which method(s) have you used for Kontakt?

3.8.1 Assigning MIDI Controllers
To assign any of KONTAKT’s sliders or knobs to a certain MIDI controller:
1. Right-click the knob or slider you want to assign a MIDI controller to.
2. Select Learn MIDI CC# Automation.
3. Turn the knob or move the slider on your MIDI hardware controller. The control should
pick up the movement instantly. You can add additional MIDI controllers (CC#s) to the
same KONTAKT knob. You can also assign multiple knobs or sliders to the same MIDI
controller.
If you cannot assign MIDI controllers this way, see section ↑12.7, Automation Tab, for an
alternative assignment method.

and/or?

12.7.1 Assigning MIDI Controllers (alternative way)
If you cannot assign MIDI controllers as described in section ↑3.8, MIDI Learn, there is an alternative
way:
1. Make sure at least one instrument is loaded and set to the MIDI port and channel of your
hardware controller.
2. Click the Browser’s Automation tab.
The Browser
Automation Tab
KONTAKT 5 - Application Reference - 130
3. Select the MIDI Automation sub tab.
4. Turn a knob or move a slider on your hardware controller.
5. You should see a flash next to the CC# that is used by your external controller; in addition,
the MIDI symbol in the instrument header should flash. If this does not work: Open
the Options dialog. Select the MIDI tab.
6. Select Inputs. Check if your MIDI hardware is selected as input for the same port you
have assigned the instrument in question to.
7. If the MIDI input is setup correctly, drag and drop the MIDI CC# you wish to use onto the
control you wish to control.

Source: http://percussion.music.arizona.edu/crosstalk/Data/Kontakt%205%20Application%20Reference%20English.pdf
... although official docs are here (didn't use for above - below has the 2nd method in section 13, not 12):
https://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downloads/manuals/KONTAKT_5_6_8_Manual_English.pdf

... downloaded the Kontakt demo. Before loading, I checked that CC values are coming out. I've got the FC7 plugged into Foot Controller 1 port which defaults (for presets) to CC 11. Midi-OX shows 0x0B which is 11 decimal. I happen to have a 1-PART performance loaded right now, so only PART 1 shows the CC messages through USB MIDI out.

Loaded basic installation which says it's going to take around 300MB while the install is around 500MB. So probably a slimmed down set of things to install in basic. I'm also not installing the 2nd ("library") file. I'm guessing this will be enough to do something simple like test the automation feature.

Terminated Midi-OX in case Kontakt is bothered by another MIDI piece of software.

... waiting - maybe the 1st load takes forever and later loads do not take as long.

I had a choice of drivers on load - so I picked the Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO. That's audio. Clicked on the MIDI tab. It shows all inputs as "OFF" - I'm going to change that now. Montage-1 I changed to "Port A". That's the input section. Output section, everything was OFF - but I turned MONTAGE-1 to ON. That's it on config so far.

Ok - now following the directions. I'll start with the first set from 3.8.1 since that seems to be "preferred".

I guess first I have to load some instrument. Maybe I do have to load a library of some sort to do anything. First time using this stuff. So I download the demo content. Quit out of Kontakt to be sure the content load doesn't complain.

I'm pretty good at following directions and finding answers, but the following didn't work - so I give up

After installation, open KONTAKT 5 PLAYER.
Click on the "Database" tab, no category should be selected.
Make sure that "Instr" is selected in the header.
Enter "demo" into the search field to find the demo patches.
Now load a demo patch and evaluate the full potential of KONTAKT 5. The demo patches will time out after 15 minutes per session.

I didn't see any "search field" despite having done the preceding steps.

I found this - which helped identify where the "search" box was. It's about as obvious as a ghost in a snowstorm. Followed some of the additional instructions to add the database. No go. Everything is empty for me in this demo.

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/211807289-Download-Kontakt-demo

... of course none of this works, but I was able to use "File" and navigate to the folder where the demo content is and drill down to an individual .NKI and load that using "file". The suggested "database" method didn't work.

... back to following directions which haven't worked thus far with flying colors.

I've got "Band" loaded up right now - it loaded with "Demo - C3 Blues" which is a clonewheel.

Right clicked on "Sound" (right-most knob), chose the autolearn thing. Moved the expression pedal. Didn't work - maybe I took too long. Actually, when I right click again on it - it does say "CC 11" which is the expression pedal. Maybe just the knob doesn't animate when moving the pedal. I thought maybe it's because it's demo - you get a 15 min limit. Reloaded Kontakt.

Ok, reload of Kontakt - reloaded the "File" for the organ VST. Went through the same steps - left clicked on the "Sound" knob and wiggled the expression pedal. Now the knob is captured and moving fine. Works great.

I'd say try again - because, problems with the install instructions aside, it's working fine here. Problem initially with the knob working is because my demo timed out and locked out the interface from working.

No matter what I put in the MIDI settings (clock out Y/N, internal/external, etc) I couldn't break the auto-learn.

The only way I could break auto-learn was to turn PART Zone Control ON and do one of the following:

1) Set transmit channel to OFF (instead of a MIDI channel)
2) Set CC to OFF (under zone transmit) because this disables mostly everything
3) Set Vol/Exp to OFF (under zone transmit)
4) Set FC1 to OFF (under zone transmit)

That's it. Setting Vol/Exp to OFF in the "Zone Settings" menu is the same as the zone transmit setting - so yes, that'll do it too but doesn't represent a different case.

So make sure none of those are set as listed above or the CC will not be transmitted. Adjust FC1 to FC2 if this is the pedal jack you're using.

Also, make sure you're not trying to do this with the footpedal assigned to some function which can be CC or can be set to CC=off. Because setting to a function with CC=Off will setup this to output SysEx instead of CC.

... EDIT: don't think the initial issue with auto-learn was necessarily a timeout. Because I just had the interface timeout and it's obvious - because it closes out the VST and has a "timeout" message on the screen. Previously, it just didn't work the 1st try. A reload did make the auto-learn work fine the 2nd try. Maybe just try again.

Trying again here - it seems to work fine. Assigned to "glide" on the Synth Bass demo.

Jason on kontakt I can't find expression setting....only volume setting and if I assign with autolearn the kontakt volume driven by montage expression pedal it anytime put the volume to the max value instead to the setted (less than max) volume.....so it is not possible to use it.
Again.....if on montage the expression pedal act on expression of master output this kind of problems disappear....but currently is not in this way so I suggest to consider it on next firmware.
Again....the problem on kontakt expression to me is not so important because I don't use it live (for this kind of issue)......but the problem on the change of expression on each change of montage program it is a true problem.
I waiting for a bad mister answere that sey to me to wait to be in front of montage......now I'm in front of montage but the problem is not solved.
If I try to solve it setting hold in midi controller I generate a lot of new problems because all controller remain hold and I need that only expression remain hold (the other controllers I want that will be resetted at any change of program)
Thanks

This is the part I'm trying to address:

Second point (less important)....expression pedal doesn't work with kontakt ....auto learn doesn't fill it.......

Seems like this is a moving target - but I also understand this is an international forum - so I can try again. The rewrite (termed "again", but seems different than above) seems to be that auto learn is working, but after it works - it doesn't do what you want. You still haven't really been clear about what you're trying to accomplish. At least so I can satisfy your request without having to wait for new firmware.

Although still not clear - I think what you're (now) saying is "yes, the expression pedal can be auto-learned by Kontakt. However, I notice when I move the expression pedal, internal voices change volume - and I don't want that to happen".

If this is true, then do this:

1) On Montage: Go into any PART you do not want the expression pedal to affect volume and turn Receive OFF for Vol/Exp (leave it ON if you want the expression pedal to affect volume of that PART while simultaneously being used for Kontakt)
2) That's really it - I can still learn the expression pedal CC 11 even if all PARTs in a multi-PART performance have Vol/Exp OFF. So now any PARTs you opt-out of volume control with expression will not change volume and Kontakt is using your expression pedal.

I tested using "CFX PopStudioGrand" for PART 1, "Nu Touch Clav" for PART 2, and "Mr Coin" for PART 3. I started by removing "Mr Coin" from responding to expression first - along with using the expression pedal for Kontakt (C3 Blues organ from demo). All that was working and removed a PART one by one testing along the way until all PARTs were not affected by the expression pedal and only the organ (Kontakt) was still moving the parameter I assigned by using the auto-learn feature as described (right click on the knob or button in Kontakt, pick the only option as "Learn MIDI CC# Automation", move the expression pedal -- that's it).

It's possible you have a very specific configuration you're trying to achieve that you have not outlined yet. Maybe you want to do this without having to press one option per PART. I'm not sure what you're after yet that cannot be satisfied with the tools at hand (for this auto-learn related behavior you're seeking - I'm ignoring some of the other stuff you've asked for at the moment).

Volume is CC 7. Expression is CC 11. They both "standardize" to affect volume but 11 is called "expression" and is like an overall volume for for all channels while CC 7 standardizes as a volume per channel. However, Montage can opt-out of volume control for expression. When you see Kontakt memorize CC 11 (right click on the control you "auto-taught" meaning used the auto-learn feature AFTER the auto-learn and you will see the CC# assigned. It should be 11. 11 is expression).

There are two ways to auto-learn. I'm not sure if you're using the same way. The way I've described is pretty easy to do and use the same method to see what CC # it memorized (re-right-click with mouse).

... Doing this opting out business does have a slight down-side that can be addressed. The sliders are tied to the same on/off that the expression pedal is. So opting out of expression control also disconnects your slider for that PART. You can re-purpose the global assignable knobs to PART volume which should give you control back on a per-PART basis - or just use scenes to offset the volume if you do not need real-time dynamic control.

I'm still shooting in the dark here - because I have to infer what you're after. But if I was trying to control Kontakt with the expression pedal (not superknob) AND I didn't want the expression pedal to mess with volume AND I wanted to still use my sliders to adjust volume for PARTs and not have to reassign other controls for that - then I wold:

1) Edit the "controls" settings for Foot Ctrl 1 and change it from 11 to something else unassigned (free for use). This is a performance-level setting you change by pressing the performance name (at top of HOME), then "Edit", then "Control" -> "Control Number". I tested using CC95
2) Unlike other suggestion, make sure all PARTs have Vol/Expression receive turned ON (so sliders will work)

Now your Kontakt will auto learn CC #95 (instead of 11), Montage faders can be used to set each PART's volume, and the expression pedal will not affect volume of any PART. If you still want a PART's volume to be affected by the expression pedal, you'll have to use motion control (Mod/Control->Control Assign) with the foot controller as a source and volume as a destination. I don't think you want that - but you can still get that control back if you want it and retain all other properties (Kontakt working, some PARTs not volume controlled by expression pedal) - or you can just leave it alone without programming any motion control and all PARTs will not change volume with the expression pedal - this may be what you're after.

I'm having deja-vu, because another user wanted to opt out of volume control for the expression pedal and retain fader control - so this was the same basic suggestion made in that thread.

Feel like I didn't address this fully:

Jason on kontakt I can't find expression setting

You don't have to find it. Just, in Kontakt, right-click on what control you want to move on the VST when you wiggle the expression pedal. You don't have to find "volume" or "expression" or "CC 11" or "CC 95" or "CC anything" or "anything else". It's automatic so you don't have to fool with knowing any of that. Just right-click on the graphic picture of a knob or switch or button or whatever you can right-click on in the picture of the instrument (VSTi) - it's under the rack and Kontakt calls these "instruments". For the "Band" instrument - this is the organ C3 thing - I see a switch labeled "PERCUSSION" or "VIB/CHORUS" knob or "SOUND" knob - under "Instrument Controls". There's lots of knobs and buttons and things. Right click on any of them - a little box will pop up and say "Learn MIDI CC# Automation". Hover over that until it changes to a darker grey color and click the left mouse button. The box will go away. Now wiggle the expression pedal - and you'll see the control start to move - as it's been memorized. Easier to see with knobs since they move a lot. But buttons, lights, switches, knobs, most anything in the picture of the instrument can be right-clicked and automatically assign to the expression pedal. Make sure the instrument in the rack isn't the small "collapsed" version. On the far-right under the "X" is a "+" you can press if the instrument is collapsed. Press the "+" to show the full instrument with controls.

At the bottom of the instrument, there's another box that shows "Options" besides "Instrument". Clicking on that - I see another screen of buttons and knobs and what-not. You can right-click on some of these and memorize the MIDI controller (Expression, or whatever you elect to move which sends CC). I'm a novice at Kontakt - you're the expert here. Maybe there are more screens you can get to which have controls you can assign. That's the basic run-down.

... also, Kontakt hasn't been complained about having to purchase. This is $400USD retail - guess I've seen as low as $300. External pedals seems like a pretty low tax to me. You can even spring for one of those Reflex Universal Expression Pedals ($210USD new or $170USD used) or Roland FC-300 someone else is using ($450USD new, $190USD used) which will give you an expression pedal that sends its own CC values without needing Montage. FCB1010 is basically the same as the Roland at $150USD new or $90USD used. You can either pass this through Montage (brought to Kontakt through MONTAGE-3) or connect (in the case of the Reflex, not sure about Roland) directly to the computer through USB.

I know you don't want to buy more stuff - but I think of this as an accessory to your Kontakt purchase more than to Montage. And seems like most of what you're after can be accomplished through programming - it's up to you if you want to buy your way out or not.

Or perhaps I'll get a better picture of what you're trying to do which cannot be accomplished by relatively straight-forward use of Montage (get a better description).

Three days passed and no indication from bad mister about problem of expression pedal on changing montage program.
No solution to my problem.
Firmware updating needed if possible.