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Formant Synthesis in the Montage?

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 Fred
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Hello,

As showed in the title, I would like to know if it's possible to simulate the Formant Synthesis (found in the Yamaha FS1R) in the Montage FM/X.

8 waveforms are available for basic operators in the FS1R, while "only" 7 in the Montage, the waveform "frmt' is not in the Montage. So, is it possible to simulate it ?

Thanks

 
Posted : 24/10/2022 1:17 pm
Jason
Posts: 7963
Illustrious Member
 

Formant isn't supported at the operator level like the FS1R. The closest you can get is adding a formant insertion effect to the Part and modulate the parameters of this effect using motion sequence.

 
Posted : 24/10/2022 1:48 pm
 Fred
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Topic starter
 

Thank you Jason. But I dont know any "Formant" insertion effect in the effects list.

 
Posted : 24/10/2022 1:56 pm
Jason
Posts: 7963
Illustrious Member
 

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/1341759/montage_en_dl_j0.pdf

Page 160 shows "Talking Modulator" has vowels. And vowels are typically implemented using formants:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/formant-synthesis

Page 161 shows "Vocoder" which is not a standalone effect since it's modulated by an external signal either from a microphone (A/D Input) or another part. Since Vocoder also utilizes formants you could create say an FM-X Part that would modulate the Vocoder instead of a microphone then apply a motion sequence to the FM-X part in order to "excite" the Vocoder. In addition, parameters of the Vocoder itself can be modulated.

Although I've seen these options to possibly do some FS1R-like things -- I never embarked on trying to build this up since there's a lot of work to do. Also, this would be approximate with no real equivalency. Therefore, I had little confidence that the time spent would bear much fruit. Still, that's what's available in the way of formants.

 
Posted : 24/10/2022 4:38 pm
 Fred
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

[quotePost id=118916] https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/1341759/montage_en_dl_j0.pdf

Page 160 shows "Talking Modulator" has vowels. And vowels are typically implemented using formants:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/formant-synthesis

Page 161 shows "Vocoder" which is not a standalone effect since it's modulated by an external signal either from a microphone (A/D Input) or another part. Since Vocoder also utilizes formants you could create say an FM-X Part that would modulate the Vocoder instead of a microphone then apply a motion sequence to the FM-X part in order to "excite" the Vocoder. In addition, parameters of the Vocoder itself can be modulated.

Although I've seen these options to possibly do some FS1R-like things -- I never embarked on trying to build this up since there's a lot of work to do. Also, this would be approximate with no real equivalency. Therefore, I had little confidence that the time spent would bear much fruit. Still, that's what's available in the way of formants.
[/quotePost]

Thank you Jason

 
Posted : 25/10/2022 9:18 am
 Fred
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you Bill.

8 waveforms are available for basic operators in the FS1R, while "only" 7 in the Montage, the waveform "frmt' is not in the Montage. So, is it possible to simulate it ?

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to 'operators' or 'waveforms'?

By "Waveforms" I meant : Sine, ALL1, ALL2, RES1, RES2, ODD1, ODD2. These are the 7 waveforms we can choose from as spectral base for each operators.
In the FS1R, an 8th one can be taken, called "frmt".

So my question was : is it possible to replace this lacking waveform in the Montage ?

What is it you are really wanting to do? How good to the formants need to be? How many formants are you talking about?

As the FS1R was not available for a long time, I just wonder if it's possible to design quite approaching sounds ?

 
Posted : 25/10/2022 9:28 am
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

Low frequency, but audible range, Fixed ratio Res1 and Res2 with Skirt values you like, and then very rapid and then smoothing reverses of the Resonance value (attach to the Mod Wheel so you can swizzle it under good control of your fingers) will get you the closest to voice-ish sounding stuff.

And that's not really close, but about the best I think can be done.

To then hone it, add a low pass filter with resonance that's also controllable, and at a point slightly higher than (and moves with) the resonance value of your Res1/2 "oscillator", and move it according to whatever you do with the Skirt, as this is what's pushing out more higher frequency stuff to be honed by this filter.

The more skirt, the steeper sloped low pass you'll need, and the more aggressively it'll likely need to hone the spectrum, but the more interesting it will be. I think.

Then use the Vocoder effect ontop of this to further approximate some kind of voice sounding.

---------------------

There's a lot of oohs and arghs and other vocal stuff in the Samples, of which tweaking with the AWM2 Filter and other effects can be probably easier to use for anything you want that's formant-like.

And there's a wahwah effect somewhere, which helps with this, too.

 
Posted : 25/10/2022 10:40 am
Darryl
Posts: 788
Prominent Member
 

This is actually quite a timely thread for me. As I mentioned in the new thread I just started regarding 'Custom ARPs vs Presets', I am working on a Queen medley and added some of Radio Ga Ga at the end of it.

Listening to the part after the intro ARP solos, whereby they start the chording, using lots of various synth sounds, and one of them being a warm pad sound that starts at 0:23 www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdwsXLmrHE&t=23s then changes into a vocoder formant-like sound at 0:34 starting with an 'e' sound, then into full vocoder 'radio'. Then at 0:43 the darker formant-like sound continues with 'o', then, 'a', then 'e', etc., which I think was all done via the vocoder. I also suspect they were using those 3 specific vowel sounds because they are in the word 'radio' ('a', 'e', 'o')

I played around with a warm FM-X pad PART that is nearly identical sounding to the one recorded in that song, then I added the "Talking Modulator" vocoder-like/formant-like effect, and changed the 'Vowel' between 'o, 'e' & 'a', which I find sounds very close to the vocoded sound heard throughout Radio Ga Ga starting at 0:34

 
Posted : 25/10/2022 5:37 pm
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