[quotePost id=122890]Analog can provide massive thick tones I found I couldn't get that out of the FMx whereas Oberheim is so thick you can't see the wall behind the sound. I can't compare I don't have the Montage anymore. Real analog is all about thickness and filters and detuning.[/quotePost]
FM-X can be programmed to sound as massive and thick as analog synths. You just need to find the right sounds and know how to program it.

Thin FM is nice for bells and textures and layers but it won't growl at a brick wall and bring it down. It just always sounded thin which is okay for what it was meant to do

This is a myth. FM can create bell-like sounds and textures that other synths can't, but that is because of several factors, one of them being that the attack is so fast compared to analog synths. When creating analog sounds on the FM-X engine, you need to slow down the attack to start with.

Dom Sigalas does some pretty great FM-X programming...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y32ZhP5x8I&t=274s
Check out his channel or search YT for Dom Sigalas Montage FM-X:
https://www.youtube.com/@DomSigalas/videos

Also, this guy's channel where he has single FM sounds from the original DX7, but many of the voices sound like they are layered.
Imagine what he could do with 2 or 3 FM-X PARTs and effects. He also has great instructional videos:
These give a taste of what FM-X can sound like...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEPJB17NeBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiYa4oUxKR8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlAAbvrtYzQ

Here are some Performances that I programmed from scratch and uploaded to Soundmondo:
It's too bad you don't have access to a Montage or MODX to check them out. This first one I programmed in about 15 minutes this evening, just playing with an FM-X Preset called "Wax and Wane". It's got some pretty massive thick tones like an Oberheim. I didn't put a lot of time into it, but it could be tweaked to sound as thick and massive as analog synths, such as an Oberheim:
FM WaxAndWane-Pad
https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/108278

FM Saw Pad-Reverb.FX (This was an experiment I did and I believe I posted on a thread of this Forum. I basically took a basic "FM Saw Paad" sound and made it sound more massive)
https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/98223

FM Voice Strings (This is one of the first sounds I programmed ~30 years ago)
https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/108279

Maybe the Montage2 will allow me to load these up to have a listen. I'm trying to get the CS80 clone because that makes sounds nothing else can make. Not really sure why Yamaha hasn't revived the CS80. Those textures brassy and intense and someone said delicate yet powerful at the same time. It's really dumb of Yamaha because not many have a CS80 or could ever afford one so then the obvious no brainer question is why haven't you revived it into a form we all can enjoy using modern tech? We'll all be dead and still not having a CS80 to enjoy. Soon it will be 50 years.

Ok, I took a half hour and recorded the 3 sounds that I have in soundmondo and uploaded the .wav file into soundcloud so that you can hear the 3 of them being played. The sounds play in the same respective order as the 3 soundmondo links above:

https://soundcloud.com/dclowe/yamaha-montage-fm-sounds-analog
FM WaxAndWane-Pad
FM Saw Pad-Reverb.FX
FM Voice Strings

Basically, FM-X (DX7) can be programmed to sound like analog synths with massive thick tones instead of like many of the typical thinner FM bells and textures... 😉

I'm wondering if FM can do AN then why waste the effort adding ANx to the Montage2? Also no analog synths would be selling like hot cakes if FM could replicate or replace it. Something about circuits with filters has that little something extra but I've never heard FM do a CS80 even close. Not even the Yamaha sampling of CS80 is anywhere close. Modeling might but they probably haven't done that either and even then you're only limited to that one voice. All synths can do a little of something else but they can't become that something else in totality which is what makes them very special. If you decide to produce a record you'll likely bring in the most authentic original instrument for that reason. I even have a few patches on the Oberheim that are call FM and DX but if I want the real deal I'd rather go and get it.

FM synthesis takes some time to learn. Analog is more straight forward as I recall. I had to learn DX7 programming out of necessity and I know there are much better programmers out there. I just have my own way of programming by ear, combining stacks from various DX7 sounds, combining them in an algorithm that fits, then tweaking the h3!! out of it... But there are lots of videos and training information on programming FM-X now, which is awesome. Something that I didn't have back in the 80's.

AN would be a completely different programming method and might be easier than FM...well if it's meant to emulate the knobs of a CS80 then it would likely be closer to programming an analog synth I would think..!?

I just love the challenge of creating any sound from FM-X whether it's an acoustic sound, an analog synth or something completely new. Having the authentic original instrument would be awesome, but it's a luxury that I don't have, so I love creating that sound via FM-X or in some cases find a patch whereby someone has already created it.
But having AWM2 with FM-X just adds more fun and an enhanced depth of sound when layering the two together.

I really have never needed the AN-X, but have always hoped others would get it on their Montages/MODX's, as it's been requested so often and up voted the most. Just like I wanted other to get a sequencer prior to OS 3.0 even though I would never use it. I think the Montage could have handled AN-X, but would have been very limited in polyphony and wouldn't have been worth the effort. Something the Montage has in spades is polyphony, so to take an awesome synth and greatly reduce the polyphony on a brand new AN-X modelling engine would have been as fail. So I get why Yamaha had to scrap it on the original Montage (if they were indeed considering it for that synth). We'll know in October when the new replacement synth is released and we see whether it has AN-X or not, and whether the MODX+ has AN-X or not as well... 😉

Check out the Iridium loopop review that FM has operators where you can assign all kinds of different &/or custom waveforms to each individually. It's FM madness to a whole other level. I played with it briefly on mine. He mentioned that this engine by itself needed it's own demo & tutorial video. Then you can thicken it and add 2 more engines and then add a whole other voice layer with 3 engines on top of that. I'll have to attempt that one day.