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Is there a way to import Montage FM parts to Halion 7 FM Lab?

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Hello. As the title says, how to export FM patches from Montage and import it to Halion 7?

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 11:45 am
Jason
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Halion supports import of DX7 or TX81Z sysex files only. The FM converter online tool converts from these sysex files to FM-X but there are no provisions to export or convert FM-X sounds on Montage or MODX to these sysex file formats.

Someone could write such a tool. It would be the inverse of the current FM-X converter.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 12:42 pm
Dragos
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You can duplicate the core FM synth (algorithm, operator waveforms, envelopes) of Montage in HALion with perfect accuracy (HALion can even emulate the hardware FM-X mathematical precision).

But this is where the commonalities end.
Because an FM-X part (and the containing Performance) on Montage/MODX has a lot of stuff that's simply not present in HALion: Motion Sequences, a lot of the effects, Audio In and Envelope Follower etc.
It's not technically possible at this moment (August 2023) to completely replicate a Montage Part/Performance in HALion.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 1:11 pm
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Topic starter
 

Thx for answers. What's of use FM-X mode in Halion if you cant load FM-X sounds? Maybe next Montage will have some option to export syx or something.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 4:56 pm
Posts: 773
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What's of use FM-X mode in Halion if you cant load FM-X sounds?

That's a good question - but one you need to ask Steinberg.

There is virtually no mention of FM-X in the op manual at all other than saying the mode exists.

Maybe next Montage will have some option to export syx or something.

As Dragos implies in his response it isn't a question of SysEx alone or even just knowing the various parameter settings.

The algorithms and curves used for the envelopes are proprietary so the difference between the TIME setting for Attack and Decay1 or Decay2 isn't known or linear. Those algorithms and curves are critical to reproducing the sound.

A converter, such as the FM-X converter Jason mentioned, uses knowledge about the internal mechanism of both the source and target instruments. For the FM-X converter Yamaha is the creator of both source and target.

Yamaha and Steinberg would need to work together to creaate a converter that does what you are asking.

How long can you hold your breath while you wait for that to happen?

SPOILER ALERT! Not long enough.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 5:16 pm
Dragos
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[quotePost id=122813]Thx for answers. What's of use FM-X mode in Halion if you cant load FM-X sounds? Maybe next Montage will have some option to export syx or something.[/quotePost]
I find it pretty useful, actually.

It does mean you can use all your knowledge of operating the FM-X synth engine in the Montage/MODX inside HALion.
So if you created a nice sound, mostly from the synth engine, then you can manually recreate it (yes, tedious, but still good that's possible).
Also, if you're a competent FM-X programmer, this means your skills transfer directly.

Apart from that, I think it was good for marketing as well (but of course, it can backfire).

BTW, the FM-X "mode", if I remember correctly, was just a "sound engine precision preset", so in that mode HALion will sound closer to Montage/MODX as opposed to its "full precision" engine.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 5:43 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
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[quotePost id=122815]It does mean you can use all your knowledge of operating the FM-X synth engine in the Montage/MODX inside HALion.
So if you created a nice sound, mostly from the synth engine, then you can manually recreate it (yes, tedious, but still good that's possible).[/quotePost]
Get out your camera or notebook & pencil :p

I did quite a bit of programming on my DX7II-FD synth over the years and often find Op stacks on different voices that I want to combine to create a new sound (if there's an algorithm that will handle it). I've often had to write down all the settings of both voices and then combine them manually on a new voice/algorithm.

The thing I like most about the Montage's FM-X engine is the ability to copy Operators from one Element to another (&/or from one PART to another). So much easier. πŸ˜€
I'm sure in HALion it's even more simplistic whereby maybe it lets you drag & drop or copy & paste using a mouse and a large screen..!?

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 8:11 pm
Posts: 773
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Get out your camera or notebook & pencil :p

Or you can use the built-in ability to capture screen shots as Paul explains here:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-effects-screen-capture/

Like Montage, the MODX has a double-secret Easter egg for capturing screen shots.

Insert a USB flash drive into the USB TO DEVICE port.
Press and hold the A/D INPUT ON/OFF button.
Press and release the AUDITION button.
Release the A/D INPUT ON/OFF button.

The MODX writes screen shots to the USB flash drive with names such as β€œDSNAP_0.png”

That puts them on a USB stick.

I'm sure in HALion it's even more simplistic whereby maybe it lets you drag & drop or copy & paste using a mouse and a large screen..!?

OP wants to get the Modx sounds into Halion so I don't think that method will be available.

 
Posted : 09/08/2023 8:21 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
Prominent Member
 

Yeah I knew there was a way to screen shot on the Montage/MODX, but never used it. I'm not sure which method is quickest to capture the data (screenshots, take pics from phone or write down settings on paper)
I've done both the pics from phone & write down settings on paper, and I've found that it's usually just as fast to write the settings on paper, although that is the method I've been used to on the DX7II-FD for 30 years, so I've gotten quite at it πŸ˜‰

I would definitely do the screen capture if I was documenting steps in a process, especially if posting on this forum...

I wasn't trying to provide a solution to the OP for their question re. "I'm sure in HALion it's even more simplistic whereby maybe it lets you drag & drop or copy & paste using a mouse and a large screen", as you and others have already answered that question quite clearly since it's not possible export/convert from the MODX to HALion.
I was merely following up on my comment that "the Montage's FM-X engine has the ability to copy Operators from one Element to another (&/or from one PART to another). So much easier.", as being so much easier than what it was on the DX7II, and that I would image it would be even more simplistic in HALion to drag & drop or copy & paste operators while working within HALion itself.

But for the foreseeable future the OP will need to use a manual method to take FM-X configurations on the MODX and configure them in HALion, as there is no current method to export/import, and no one can hold their breath that long...

 
Posted : 10/08/2023 3:00 am
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

[quotePost id=122816]
The thing I like most about the Montage's FM-X engine is the ability to copy Operators from one Element to another (&/or from one PART to another). So much easier. πŸ˜€
I'm sure in HALion it's even more simplistic whereby maybe it lets you drag & drop or copy & paste using a mouse and a large screen..!?[/quotePost]
If you have the Montage/MODX connected to a computer, use John Melas' tools. You can also copy envelopes with those, and edit much faster overall.
(Maybe even copy/paste values into HALion. Never tried that, though).

 
Posted : 10/08/2023 5:16 am
Darryl
Posts: 783
Prominent Member
 

[quotePost id=122826]If you have the Montage/MODX connected to a computer, use John Melas' tools. You can also copy envelopes with those, and edit much faster overall.
(Maybe even copy/paste values into HALion. Never tried that, though).[/quotePost]
I always have the Montage connected to my PC at home. Mainly for sequencing/ARP creation in Pro Tools, but also for playing a song on YouTube (or .wav file) that has a sound that I'm programming whereby I can easily compare in real time the original sound to what I'm tweaking on the Montage. And for sampling something, I usually use Pro Tools, but I've used SampleRobot a fair bit along with a few other .wav editors like Audacity.

I don't have John Melas' tools so I do all the rest on the Montage itself. I realize it's takes longer for file management overall, but I'm quite used to it now. I've not tried HALion, but saw a video or two by Dom Sigalas on it's FM capabilities...interesting new synthesis functionality! πŸ˜‰

 
Posted : 10/08/2023 11:56 am
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

[quotePost id=122827]I realize it's takes longer for file management overall, but I'm quite used to it now.[/quotePost]
Certainly, but I wasn't pointing out file management but actual patch editing. The Performance Editor in that set of tools is a much faster way to edit a Performance, and among other things lets you copy/paste envelopes.
http://www.jmelas.gr/montage/perf_scr.php

 
Posted : 10/08/2023 12:49 pm
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