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Kind of why AWM2 is a dead end

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david
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This is where the future is going if you want to sound realistic and also interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw9bWnDei-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77zKAr9-b-s&t=2s

 
Posted : 15/08/2023 3:00 am
Posts: 820
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Yamaha got there 30 years ago. It would be great to see what they could do with that tech today.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-vl1

 
Posted : 15/08/2023 4:19 am
Darryl
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I don't think AWM2 is a dead end. I think that Yamaha will continue to enhance it, likely develop AWM3, and blend more modeling based sounds with AWM2 sample based (i.e. Piano samples with modelled resonance & other noises).
I plan to greatly utilize my Montage to its max for at least 20-30 years... There are soooooo many unique sounds that I have yet to create, especially with FM-X, but also AWM2. I have some ideas to move forward on, but also to just design sounds by accident playing around until I hit something that I've never heard before and enhance it with layers/effects/etc.

I've yet to hear a modelled piano sound as authentic and real as a well done high quality sample based piano. I'm hoping in the future that they will improve on modeling for acoustic instruments (& analog synths), especially piano to the point where you can't tell the difference by ear, nor using a spectrum analyzer. Maybe AI based modeling will be the key..!? I'm surprise we don't hear more about AI coming into future synthesis..!? Until then, I will continue to enjoy AWM2 on the Montage to its fullest!

 
Posted : 15/08/2023 3:38 pm
david
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They also have some physical modeling in the CP1 and other places but it's always extremely expensive when Yamaha does it like in $6K range. It has been proven it's not expensive to do it by EE. So the question is could Yamaha do it for an affordable price and better than EE? I think computer processing makes it more possible and Yamaha takes a different approach so they'd probably have to make a fundamental change.

The Osmose doesn't appear to behave much like a computer when running unlike like my Iridium (hesitates for a period to load new voices which is annoying) but might be similar. Yamaha likes to run completely stable rather than like a computer (can be glitchy or hesitant) which is good but then has related drawbacks too. Probably drives the cost way out of reach. Yamaha probably couldn't make this good enough or affordable but then again they once said they'd never ever have a touch screen either. To keep up they will have to eventually change or stay stuck in "old" technology not that it's bad but very limited. The CP1 has a video related to all the advanced and experimental tech but it only has 15 voices and was $6K. Very cost prohibitive apparently. Would Yamaha ever collaborate with companies like EE or Haken Audio to move something forward quickly?

Probably not. We'll see if Montage2 has MIDI2 or is MPE+ compatible at the very least. MPE+ is more advanced than standard MPE. It's so advanced that one Osmose can't even control a second Osmose correctly which is odd since the Osmose has a MIDI input. MIDI input should imply that it can be controlled correctly by something at least of it's own kind. Pointless to control it with something lesser. To do it correctly you have to use MIDI USB over a DAW also pointless since it shouldn't require a computer to be controlled correctly.

By deduction I assume standard MIDI can't handle MPE+ thus it doesn't work correctly without interferences. I also assume MIDI2 and MPE+ are similar in capabilities. How long will it take for a new MIDI2 standard to be available inside every piece of gear? I bought (2) Osmose units to discover they won't work together however I can still fake it out somewhat using a work around. I have to adjust the setting to switch a voice so basically I use one voice I establish as primary and change the voices on the second unit. Seems like software could automatically intervene to protect the voice change without interference by changing modes in the background.

 
Posted : 15/08/2023 3:41 pm
david
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I bought a used VL1 once and the LED line was going out so I retuned it. It was under $2K but back then I had no money and was afraid to risk it. I got to audition the voices and one particular voice was amazing as I recall but most weren't even close to the Osmose that has 500 separate and different internal instruments. Maybe at least 2/3 or more are pretty amazing so the ratio of good to not good or good enough is dramatically higher on Osmose and then you have MPE+. And then the Osmose is so cheap anyone can afford one. That's a big massive difference. If Osmose was $6K blindly I'd think it's well worth it. So the price is a miracle IMO. You probably can't buy a VL1 cheaper than the Osmose currently.

 
Posted : 15/08/2023 3:54 pm
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