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Leslie simulation

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I'm not satisfied from montage leslie simulation, so that I'm thinking to buy a dedicated clone about hammond. But before it I ask if someone try montage coupled with ventilator or gsi burn and if it could solve the not good (for me) organ simulation of montage?

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 6:10 am
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

I agree that the Leslie simulation could be better. I also found some idiosyncrasies with the Hammond sound itself. At least vs. A true B3. That said I find the all 9 bars performance to be a very workable organ. Before dismissing the organ sound turn the assignable knobs in element/ operator mode for Parts 1 and part 2. Doing so can add overdrive or key click sound or leakage or percussion volume. Also the faders on part 2 can control some of these parameters. I understand this all this is not Leslie simulation but just wanted to make sure you're getting the most out of what is available.

Earlier thoughts:
https://yamahasynth.com/forum/organ-sounds#reply-12395

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 7:42 am
 Jan
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

I don't understand what you mean by ventilator and gsi burn, but if your looking for a John Lord style overdrive with slippery rotator sounds, leakage, overdrive, panning, and whatever made the sound of Deep Purple distinguish to last for eternity, then it is all in the Montage,

In this case I use three standard Montage organ sounds layered as parts combined in a single performance:
1) Hot Smoky - vol 100
2) Jazz 2nd Perc + C3 - vol 74
3) Solo Percussion AF - vol 93

It makes a great Child in Time or Smoke on the Water which absolutely rocks on stage.

I am convinced that at this moment the possibilities of combining sounds by using the Montage is unbeatable by any other machine.
You create YOUR own almost unlimited sound. Just love it!

Just an addict, not a shareholder.

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 9:32 am
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Thanks I will try it, but to be honest before montage I had a nord stage 2 and the organ simulation was a lot of better than montage, expecially in live situation. Now I'm looking about electro 5 to put on my montage 8. I'm very unhappy by montage hammond simulation.
Ventilator and gsi burn are compact hardware dedicated to simulate leslie.

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 11:58 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

One tip for using the Rotary Speaker effect in Montage is to make sure you're setup in stereo. The movement and effect work best as a stereo effect. In mono, the movement (and magic) in sound is reduced. Just FYI.

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 5:55 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

One thing I noticed when I had the chance to try out the Montage Leslie at a local demo was that - 'out of the box' - the fast speed is too fast. About 8.5Hz IIRC?.....and that just makes it sound slightly comical, IMHO...
The Yamaha rep did advise that it can of course be changed (I don't recall the exact menu settings needed to do that?)
Changing the fast speed to a more 'normal' 6 or 6.5 Hz (around 400rpm) or so makes a lot of difference to the credibility of the sim....

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 6:20 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

Almost added the reference to stereo in my response - but knew it would be covered if I left it off.

I'm not sure if the original poster is already using a mono or stereo reference - so the comments may or may not already be based off the "best case" setup. Maybe that detail can be added.

On the mono side: understanding the anatomy and real-world (non-keyboard) discussion from a previous discussion on the same topic - there is still a case for mono and ensuring sounds are optimized for mono. Even though nearly everything would sound better in stereo - a performer (in this case, Montage keyboard player) is still a part of a unit. And that unit may or may not value your -access- to stereo as much as their own perceived benefit of using it. Sometimes the "unit" is your band. Sometimes the club - depending on who's providing sound (leaving off stadium and bigger venues like this where that would surely be a different class expectations). Even if you get stereo out the mains - maybe your reference is in mono (monitor). But more "devastating" is the case where you're only routed mono out mains.

Although utopia would say stereo is better, often the gig dictates otherwise - and there is nothing practical that can change this. Although half of the equation has a possible solution (the half for the keyboard player - use in ear monitors or stereo reference speakers for your own monitor "system" you carry at the gig) - the audience is not covered by this and you're still "stuck" in mono for the listeners who really matter.

Therefore, I believe that user references and feedback using mono are valid even though stereo will sound better/more convincing.

It's hard to tell based off the few posters if there is "critical mass" to do anything about the rotating speaker simulation within the effects processor. However, at least there are at least a handful of users who provide similar feedback that a) Organ sounds (and, more specifically, tonewheel type) are important as a "staple" for Montage users, b) The rotating speaker effect is a critical element of the organ sounds which are tonewheel based, and c) Yamaha, for whatever reason, appears to be "out classed" by other rotating speaker implementations currently in the market when used in a live performance environment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58CRo8Kwm1w

Using what we have, there may be a set of effects or settings which can enhance the baseline (presets). It would be interesting to learn of tweaks that are generally accepted as improving the rotating speaker sound for organ presets - or maybe new organ performances that have a more convincing response to the effects due to a difference in the core sound(s) and how they may be excited differently ("better") by the same DSP settings.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 7:15 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

You will notice that not all of the Tone Wheel organ sounds use the Rotary Speaker effect. Some actually have other programming tricks to accomplish the goal. Those looking strictly for preset sounds may find that digging and programming is, in fact, rewarding. If you some how know the exact speed you want, program it.

Engineering is looking at improving the Rotary Speaker algorithm so you don't wind up having to spend $400-500 just to spin the sound properly. if you've been around during any of the Motif series, you know development and improvements are on going. Montage is just a newborn (1.20)

 
Posted : 15/10/2016 7:50 pm
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Ok, thanks for suggestion. I hope in a better leslie in next montage update.
Regards
Andrea

 
Posted : 16/10/2016 6:55 am
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