I certainly agree with 3 - there is no easy way to reorder set list items or add a new item in (swapping/copying is just too limited). I could be doing a show with maybe 70 or 80 performances and to add one into the middle of that means painstakingly moving the final one down and then copying the others one at a time into the free space. The transposition/note shift would be handy too.

Each set list item can get a name though - or at least they can in the most recent firmware. Highlight the set list item, press Edit and then you can add a Slot Name.

The only thing keeping me from moving to the montage for live use is the fact that on setlists you can't add notes like you can on the kronos. My band plays a ton of songs and the setlist notes functionality on the kronos allows me to jot down cord progressions and such for each song. This is extremely helpful and if the montage had this ability I would switch. Seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to add in a firmware update.

Ronald wrote:

The Yamaha Montage is great! My compliments!!
BUT as being a keyboardist performing live, I am dissapointed with the features in the Live Set mode.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but when I look at the Korg Kronos setlist mode, it is more advanced. But of course I am loyal to Yamaha
Therefore I suggest to add/improve:
Ability to...
1. Set a transpose per item in setlist
2. Give a name (like song in repertoire) per item in setlist.
3. Move items in setlist easily
4. Add comment per item in setlist
5. Set midi parameters like program change per item in setlist to control external midi keyboards.

So far my suggestions

I am also playing the Montage pretty much exclusively live. I like the set list and it is enough for me. I think if you slightly change the way you are looking at it, then you will find that most things are there: See the set list as what it is, a set list. Like the piece of paper we used to have where the set list is written down and which tells you which program to select for a certain song. But in that case you can press on the song and it will select the program (in Montage speak "the performance") for you.

If you see it that way you would have a performance per song (or even multiple performances per song). Noting that you have 640 user performances free, that will bring you a long way. If that's not enough, well you can export your settings to a library and load 8 libraries. So you have 5760 performances which you can freely program. I guess that will be enough for a lifetime of songs...

Then you have all the settings you want:

1: You can transpose each performance it to your liking. There is a caveat: You have to transpose per part. So in the worst case you have to touch 8 (or even 16) parts of your performance to transpose. I can live with that but having a per performance transpose is my #1 feature request.

2: The name of the performance is the name of the song. The name will show up in the set list.

3: I strongly agree with 3. That would really be great! I got the feeling that Yamaha is also seeing this, even Bad Mister was mentioning that he would like to see that. I would expect that feature to come up at some firmware update in the not too distant future.

4: In the set list you have the "Slot Name". Since the performance name is used for the song name, the slot name is free to have a limited size comment field. And the colors can also be helpful.

5: You can set tons of MIDI parameters per performance if you enable the "Zone" mode.

I totally agree with number 3. I mainly use my Montage live and love how easily splits, layers and scenes can be created and used in comparison to my old Motif XF.
Regarding the Live Sets I still was a little bit dissappointed, because I miss an easy way to just insert a new item in the middle of an existing setlist without swapping/copyying everthing around it.

For some folks nothing will suffice, for most the current system works fine... that I guess, is the way of the world.

I can imagine at some point a SET LIST app with this function, similar to the one available in the reface Connect app, could be developed.. each program would be an icon and you simply drag and drop them into place. Reordering is done easily off-board.

But to make sure you are using the currently available technology in the Montage to its fullest potential, I highly recommend the following two articles:
Performance Basics and the Live Set 1
Performance Basics and the Live Set 2

You may discover more efficient ways to organize your data.

I have one Performance (they do have sixteen Parts) that actually takes care of most gigs... if you need rapid changes (as when you are switching several times in the same Song) it is simply smart to assemble them in the same Performance... use the Part Select buttons or the Super Knob or the Scenes to switch between them!

Recommended Article: Super Knob transitions explained

Sure you could setup 16 slots in a Live Set, but why wouldn't you save those for when you actually need them.

For example, if on a song I'm going to play acoustic piano, Rhodes and synth lead, sure I could use three slots of a Live Set, but I could also use just a single Performance with three Scenes. Or I could morph between them with my Foot pedal (SuperKnob), or simply press the [Part Select] button to seamlessly switch between sounds!

If you wind up using 180 Live Set slot... all I can say to you is, 1) you're underpaid, no matter what the gig pays 2) there might be a more efficient way!

Bad Mister wrote:

For some folks nothing will suffice, for most the current system works fine... that I guess, is the way of the world.

Agreed, that's just the way of the world. But as I wrote, having a slightly different look at things might help the original poster a lot, already. I am mostly happy with the set list. Only inserting a performance in the middle and deleting a performance from the middle of a set list is what I am missing dearly.

I can imagine at some point a SET LIST app with this function, similar to the one available in the reface Connect app, could be developed.. each program would be an icon and you simply drag and drop them into place. Reordering is done easily off-board.

My 2 cents are that that might be nice but I would not really need that. Just being able to delete a performance in a set list and move all later performance up and to be able to insert a performance in the middle of a set and move all others down would help tremendously. From a UI perspective that should be not too difficult and from the implementation it should be trivial (from a software developer's judgement). I prefer if I could do this from the Montage directly.

I have one Performance (they do have sixteen Parts) that actually takes care of most gigs... if you need rapid changes (as when you are switching several times in the same Song) it is simply smart to assemble them in the same Performance... use the Part Select buttons or the Super Knob or the Scenes to switch between them!

Recommended Article: Super Knob transitions explained

Sure you could setup 16 slots in a Live Set, but why wouldn't you save those for when you actually need them.

For example, if on a song I'm going to play acoustic piano, Rhodes and synth lead, sure I could use three slots of a Live Set, but I could also use just a single Performance with three Scenes. Or I could morph between them with my Foot pedal (SuperKnob), or simply press the [Part Select] button to seamlessly switch between sounds!

If you wind up using 180 Live Set slot... all I can say to you is, 1) you're underpaid, no matter what the gig pays 2) there might be a more efficient way!

That's one way of seeing it. I would like to explain my point of view which is different, because my use case is different, I guess.

I play in a cover band. We have about 150 songs. And virtually no two songs have the same set of sounds. So for each song I have one or more performances. Each gig we play about 30 songs. We vary the set list a lot to have more variation for frequent listeners, to adapt to the length of the gig, and to adapt to the occasion. So I do have a set list of 200 or so performances, which I frequently rearrange. So whatever Yamaha can do to simplify that would help a lot - although I of course never play 150 songs in the same gig ;).

Talking about the way to switch sounds within a song: I try to stay as close as possible to the original sounds. And in most songs I also play the bass part. Thus many performance have 3 or even more sounds split over the keyboard: A bass, a piano or pad, and some solo sound / special effect or similar. And of course I often layer sounds. And then I frequently switch sounds within a song.

Using the part select select to switch sounds doesn't buy me much because you can only play one part at a time - except for those which have the keyboard enabled. But for example when I switch from the piano to a solo I still play the bass with the left hand. So I just want to switch between the piano and a solo sound but keep the bass. I could still use the part select, if I would realize the split inside a single part with multiple elements. But that would be limited in what I could have in terms of sounds because I would only be able to use 8 elements. And it would be a lot of work to have the splits inside the part. I would have to duplicate those elements which should stay unchanged. And beware if I ever change any of those. Then I have to duplicate the work for all parts... So that does not really work for me.

In some cases I switch scenes. But that's not optimal either because they switch off the sounds which are muted in the new scene. What I want is for example to let the piano sustain with the pedal and some other sound to release naturally and not just end abruptly. I have solved that for the most important songs by instead using the assign 1 or 2 to switch sounds. That delivers what I want but it is also quite a bit of work.

I rarely use the super knob for switching between sounds, because it actually also mutes the old sounds and it takes a moment to fade between the two extremes. And also my footwork is a bit clumsy ;). And then, I use the superknob for other stuff.

So in most cases I just switch performances. Through the SSS the old sounds do sustain, so I can do what I want. And nowadays switching performances is really fast. The problem with that is that reaching the buttons for switching is a bit difficult. The scene buttons are much better located, but they cannot switch scenes. And then the rearrangement problem gets worse, the more performances I have :(.

To be honest, the perfect solution for me would be if switching a scene would allow sustaining the now muted parts like SSS does.

After OS 1.50 I have only 3 feature requests left which would make the Montage the perfect instrument for me:
- All sounds muted in scenes can still sustain like in SSS
- Have a better way to rearrange the live set
- Have a transpose setting per performance

My 2 cents...

You can switch to a new (next) performance using a footswitch which may be better than reaching for a button.

The superknob also has two buttons which allow to set the position to two extreme values (if you want) - so pressing the buttons to move superknob is an option.

Having been bit by transpose (global), changing performances, and then the next performance was in the wrong key - transposition per performance would be great. I've decided not to use transposition any more and transpose manually instead. This was only for one tune I didn't want to practice in the new key - but the cure was worse than the symptom.

Better file management is always welcome. If there was an Android + iOS app that could be used to do this - I would be fine carrying a tablet since it "fits in" with everything fairly well. I have Android and not iOS - I know this goes against the Yamaha (and many other music manuf.) grain of which tablet I should have.

Hi Jason,

thanks for the proposals.

The superknob button's location is such that it is not really reachable for fast switching for me. The scenes and assign buttons are really at the best place.

I should have mentioned that the third foot controller is not really an option for me: Sustain, expression, and then the one for switching is a bit too much. I already struggle with the two I have. And also you can go only in one direction, so that would multiply the number of performances.

At the moment I am contemplating a solution where I switch local control off, connect the MIDI output to my little MIDI control computer, and go into the Montage again. Then I could redefine the scene buttons to actually switch between the next 8 performances :-). But I would prefer to live without the additional component.

One of those multi-switch MIDI boards would give you up or down - even more pedals. With a computer there are lots of options.

If SysEx + CC messages as controller destinations ever made it into Montage - that'd be another option. Like ASW1 = next performance, ASW2 = previous performance (by CC or SysEx output). Or it'd be possible to do the envelope follower trick and use two keys on the keyboard for next and previous perf. ... or ribbon gesture ... or

I'm aware of the roadblocks presented by supporting a device with many hardware variations vs. a more controlled hardware environment such as the iOS ecosystem.

At least on the software side:

Android 3.1 and later support USB On-The-Go, which permits an Android device to act as USB host to drive USB peripherals. The USB host mode APIs introduced in Android 3.1 permit developers to implement MIDI over USB at the application level, but until recently there have been no built-in platform APIs for MIDI.

Beginning with the Android 6.0 (Marshmallow) release, device makers can enable optional MIDI support in the platform. Android directly supports USB, draft BLE, and virtual (inter-app) transports.

If Yamaha only supported MIDI over bluetooth on Android - they'd sell lots more of the bluetooth adapters while they are at it. At least nearly every single Android hardware platform has bluetooth - and BLE is not going to alienate many Android users.

BLE is said to be supported in these devices:

LG Nexus 5
LG Nexus 6
Motorola Moto X
Moto G
LG G3
Nexus 5X
Galaxy S6
Galaxy A3
Huawei Y6
Huawei P8 Lite
Galaxy Tab E
Nexus 9,
Moto E 4G LTE,
LG G4,
Sony Xperia Z5 Compact,
Samsung Galaxy Tab S2
HTC One (M9)
HTC One (M8)
HTC One (M7)
Sony Xperia Z3
OnePlus OnePlus One
Galaxy S6 Edge
Galaxy S6
Galaxy S5 (excluding Mini / Neo range)
Galaxy S4 (excluding Mini range)
Galaxy Note Edge
Galaxy Note 10.1
Galaxy Note 4
Galaxy Note 3 (excluding Neo range)

There's a slightly longer list here: http://web.archive.org/web/20151007230643/http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Bluetooth-Smart-Devices-List.aspx#SmartReady

Although not cross-referenced to which phone/tablet devices are Android OS (focuses on hardware, not OS).

... and Garmin has an interesting list of devices testing BLE http://static.garmin.com/gcm/BLE_Android.pdf

... before anyone complains - my XYZ device isn't on the list - I'm not doing an exhaustive list. Just a few searches to demonstrate there is evolving support for MIDI in Android using standards (hardware support and MIDI API).

The message is - supporting bluetooth MIDI on Android will likely support a majority of new android devices out there and should cover nearly all tablets now that more direct MIDI support is in the OS. BLE is one of those hardware features that is getting more and more difficult NOT to have in a new android device due to the hardware chipset trends.

Yamaha does support MIDI over Bluetooth on Android. The MD-BT01 adapter does not care if your device is iOS or Android. Certainly your Android device can pair with the MD-BT01 and you can use it in any Android application that supports MIDI via Bluetooth.

Yamaha has been supporting Android devices via Bluetooth since January 2016 (at that NAMM we showed several Android devices running MIDI via Bluetooth).

In another side of the business: All Yamaha home theatre systems are iOS/Android compatible.
There simply is not much activity there yet for Music Production apps (please tell me if this isn't the case. It would help if people became aware of the situation... instead of repeating things like "if Yamaha only supported..."

Certainly, the Soundmondo initiative which is one of the first to utilize Google's Chrome MIDI in a serious way, shows we are well aware of the situation. But thanks for the reminder. Do your part and find out what's already available (sounds like you didn't know MD-BT01 works with Android) just because Yamaha does not make any pro music Android apps yet should stop you from using it if you wish.... if that what you're in to...

To reiterate: file manipulation using a computer is great if some application like this was developed. I personally think it would be better to support file manipulation on a tablet since this is portable and I could "take the studio with me" if the tablet could work as a computer replacement. Having android, and not iOS - I realize this puts me, in general, at a disadvantage for support due to the natural roadblocks in place from a technical perspective. I have not offered a complete solution because I am not on payroll (and also because there are sensible roadblocks to enabling tablets and particularly android for this feature) - but am hinting towards creative use of bluetooth MIDI to enable Android support for this particular feature. I am not suggesting that android and the bluetooth adapters do not currently work together. Rather, I am focused on software that does not exist and building a rationale both for the concept, in general, and value of this tablet-based software - and for android support with a possible avenue for implementation.

Yamaha may not want to use this strategy - a method to reign in the "wild west" using MIDI over BLE as the defacto android communication path. This is fine, I understand the benefits of limiting scope.

I just want to make clear: the Yamaha MD-BT01 Bluetooth adapter works for Android.
Android apps that support Bluetooth will work.

Yes, I gather it's clear to everyone that both you and I agree and have both independently stated that the bluetooth adapters from Yamaha (both models UD-BT01 and MD-BT01) work with Android assuming the software is written to utilize this compatibility opportunity.