I don't know if this is what you're running into, but just in case it is:

If a Part in a Performance has its Volume being controlled by some control input (an assignable knob, the Ribbon, etc), that control takes precedence and the volume slider has no effect on that Part.

Thank you Michael. I see your drift - so how does one reduce the volume of such an auto-controlled Part? When next on the Montage, I'll try twiddling the assignable knobs/sliders manually. If that works, presumably I can then save it as a Live Set ('Shift' and 'Live Set' then 'Enter') and it will stay edited? Or maybe just 'Store' on the end of the 'Piano' Bank?

I do wonder why they'd do that? Surely the whole point of editable functions is to be editable?

Rod - just be aware that you don't save performances as live set slots, you are simply registering your stored performance to a slot. If you press shift live set enter you will lose all your edited changes if you haven't already pressed Store (where you will be given the option of overwriting the current performance or saving it as a new performance). Also you don't have the option of where your performance gets stored - it will be saved as the next free User slot though its category is determined by what is in part 1 so if this is a piano part the performance will appear in the piano main category.

Try not to think of Live Sets as a storage area but rather a means of organising your already stored performances - a bit like the Master mode in the Motif series.

Also - I'm not at my Montage at the moment so I can't follow this through - but p89 of the reference manual is where there is info on the use of controller assign settings for parts that could be what is controlling the volume of your part.

Hope this helps.

Hello Phil, and yes it helped a lot! I had slipped into thinking Live Sets were saved Performances and therefore could be saved to. Now I have it fixed in my head that I must 'Store' first, and then move the Performance if I want to. I do remember that Part 1 controls where the stored Performance is put - well, one out of two isn't that bad ... is it? When I come across a Part where it sounds with the indicator column at 0 but it sounds, then I watch the knob/slider lights when I select the offending Part - gives me an idea what's in use, and then I adjust manually. Ironically I didn't like the results anyway, so didn't keep it.

I am going to open another topic concerning the contrast of the Forum text on screen. Thanks again ...

Thank you Michael. I see your drift - so how does one reduce the volume of such an auto-controlled Part?

What I did was to remove the controller connection to Part Volume. Once I did that, the Part started responding to the volume slider.

I do wonder why they'd do that? Surely the whole point of editable functions is to be editable?

I don't know. If I remember right, the Performance I found this in was Solo Cello AF1. To a certain extent, in this Performance, the longer you hold a note the louder it gets. So maybe there's some sort of motion control thing set up that does it by automatically controlling the Part Volume. I haven't had time yet to dive in and figure this out. I just wanted to be able to control the volume. So I broke the connection and continued on with my actual project.

Hello Michael - that 'swell' element would indeed be part of the 'motion control' function. However, the more I poke around the more confusing it gets! For example, I was playing with 'Bright Pop Trumpets' which has 4 Parts - and Parts 3 and 4 do nothing at all anywhere on the keyboard, nor have any response to the Superknob. Part 2 responds to the Superknob over the last few notches. And all the Parts are the same base sound. I am now considering creating a library of base sounds - each just one Part - as a palette with which I can work. I admire much of the work done by the Yamaha programmers - but I bought it to invent my own noises rather than listen to someone else's. That is thwarted if I have to first unpick what's been done (sometimes brilliantly!) by someone else. There are already a number of 'single Part' sounds (which in my mind are 'voices' as they are single Part - not a mixture, and therefore not a 'Performance'). I am not sure if I can categorise such a Library - that is, group all pianos together, all strings and so on, or whether sounds are stored in strict chronological order, or could be sub-divided, or perhaps arranged alphabetically? More digging required! Keeps me off the streets ...

Rod, all the parts in a performance will have some function even if it's not immediately apparent. My montage is in the theatre so I can't check this specifically but you might find parts 3 and 4 of Bright Pop Trumpets are set to respond to another controller other than the superknob - the assign switches for instance. If the parts are set to the same "base" sounds the assign switches might be used to activate/deactivate the parts (within the programming of the part specific elements will have the XA control set to ASW 1 or 2 to on/off). I know in other performances the assign switches are used to flip between mono and poly versions of the same sound.

It can be confusing as unfortunately there are not always clues in the performance name as to how it has been programmed - sometimes AF may be included in the name suggesting that the assign switches are used. The audition button though is a good resource - it will demonstrate how the performance can be used. Again I'm not at the montage to check this specifically now but I think when the audition phrase is playing you can see which controllers are being used - ie the superknob may move, the assign switches may light etc.

As for your grouping of performances again you can't specify locations for where they're stored though when searching for them you can set them to be listed in alphabetical order in the category search (reference manual p162). Or you could register them in live sets - which to my mind is the easiest way to access performances you use a lot.

Rod wrote:

Hello Michael - that 'swell' element would indeed be part of the 'motion control' function. However, the more I poke around the more confusing it gets! For example, I was playing with 'Bright Pop Trumpets' which has 4 Parts - and Parts 3 and 4 do nothing at all anywhere on the keyboard, nor have any response to the Superknob. Part 2 responds to the Superknob over the last few notches. And all the Parts are the same base sound. I am now considering creating a library of base sounds - each just one Part - as a palette with which I can work. I admire much of the work done by the Yamaha programmers - but I bought it to invent my own noises rather than listen to someone else's. That is thwarted if I have to first unpick what's been done (sometimes brilliantly!) by someone else. There are already a number of 'single Part' sounds (which in my mind are 'voices' as they are single Part - not a mixture, and therefore not a 'Performance'). I am not sure if I can categorise such a Library - that is, group all pianos together, all strings and so on, or whether sounds are stored in strict chronological order, or could be sub-divided, or perhaps arranged alphabetically? More digging required! Keeps me off the streets ...

There is no such Performance "Bright Pop Trumpets", perhaps you mean "Pop Horns Bright".

To explore and learn about this Performance, after you've played it and concluded that Parts 3 and 4 do nothing, press the [AUDITION] button, then watch and listen. Rather than just performing this like a piano, pressing the glowing ASSIGN SW1 and ASSIGN SW2 bring in entirely different horn articulation so.... A "Shake" and a "Fall-off", respectively. This is at the core of the additional Elements afforded by multiple Parts, the sound has more ways to be expressive. Notice the MW allows the player to execute a convincing manual sforzando swell.

In general, with the factory sounds the [AUDITION] button is your clue to how the sound can be performed. It can help you discover some of these things on your own.

The "glow" at 1/4 or 1/2 brightness allows you know when buttons do something. If you see the AssignSw1 and/or the AssignSw2 glowing press them - they are either changing effect settings, or bringing in a different articulation, or even switching sounds.

Oh, I see you've been answered correctly on most of these things. But you should develop a method for trying out sounds and exploring.

Hello Phil and Bad Mister, and thank you for pointing out the variations possible with the different controls (it was 'Pop Horns Bright' and not what i'd vaguely remembered!), and indeed they do produce quite complex variations on the otherwise silent Parts. I think my problem is that I bought the Montage for the wrong reasons - I want to make up my own sounds, not make music or audition other people's sounds. So I'm thinking far too simply! But I will remember to check not just the Superknob in future - as suggested, the 'Audition' button provides a good insight into what does what!

In the meantime, I have started on my search for single Part sounds, and that has brought up another seeming problem which I will broach in a new topic. Thank you for your patience ( and astonishing expertise!) ...