Sorry about the double post. This current site condition. causes a lot of trouble.
someone delete the extra 1 if You can +this one

Thank you

Seems I misread the thing about the BK-7m.
Put a Genos in a little box. What a Great Dream. Do not think it will happen.

And About the Genos. Yamaha Lost again to Korg PA4X. Why? Because You can not edit the sounds.

I would take a Genos over a PA4X anytime. Except 4 that 1 factor. Yamaha. Outside of $ It really does hold Genos/Tyros sales back. And there is no reason 4 it.

Dear all,

Still fun to see that a discussion I already started right after the release of the Montage in a different thread is still active and that keyboard fanatics keep bumping into the same issue with the Montage and its MIDI implementation and leave this forum disappointed.

Much more because Yamaha fails to sympathise with its key users who have been relying on their Yamaha hardware for years. The heavily used answer from Yamaha to just buy an external MIDI controller that can be configured to transmit to multiple channels at the same time just shows the do not understand how older Yamaha synth models have grown as the center piece in lots of keyboard setups. And these threads are absolutely no attack on the concept of the Montage as a whole, but Yamaha users get the feeling Yamaha just does not want to understand what modern keyboard setups have to be like to keep up with alternatives like soft synths etc.

My biggest problem is not that I do not have the money or even the urge the buy a different external controller which can transmit on multiple MIDI channels at the same time. My problem is that I need a center piece synth on which I can recall performance after performance real quick instantly configuring all sounds, even layered or in split in some cases, correctly for both keybeds without having to alter settings on other devices or controllers. There is just no time for that during a show between songs. The Montage fits 99% of the requirements in such a setup and this is why it leaves me so disappointed that this 1% is only caused by the MIDI input implementation, some piece of software code which of course has performance impact but would enable lots of users to really start loving this new Yamaha product.

The studio (+PC w/software) is a bit easier to solve since you can software re-route MIDI channels using plug-ins.

If we ignore the studio (as defined above), as the fixed assignment of channels is not a problem here, then we are left with issues with direct connect of MIDI equipment without a PC between such as live use. And here is where there is a true rub. In this situation, the fixes are either to carry a PC for live use (bring the studio setup with you) - or, as you've mentioned, use a controller that has many more bells/whistles than you may otherwise need ($$) - or to use a piece of dedicated (not PC or Mac based) hardware between your external MIDI device(s) and Montage which reroutes the MIDI channels.

Some new software is coming which solves a narrow band of situations. Currently, if you carry a PC/Mac - then you can use plugins to handle echoing channels from a keyboard that only supports - say one zone - and reassign those to a set of output channels. This allows for Montage to say in multi-channel mode with a traditional legacy MIDI controller.

The plugins and setup required to get this to work may be too unfriendly, difficult, etc. for some users.

There's new software that's not out yet which, among other things, helps solve this issue. You can connect two keyboards through USB to a computer and reassign the MIDI note on/off messages from a keyboard to Montage. There's a demo here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Aq0cN5cDok&t=537

The demo shows an MX keyboard (which only supports 2 simultaneous MIDI zones) playing a 4-PART CFX piano Performance. Although this could be done with plugins -- since this "Camelot" software is Montage-aware -- and this tool has this application in mind -- the setup is probably easier than using existing plugins out there for the general population. The application does other things as well including managing PDF charts that swap out when you press what the software calls its own "scene" buttons (not the scene buttons on Montage).

The software is said to run on iOS, Mac OS, and Windows. I would imagine Mac or PC would be needed for the multi-keyboard setup. Maybe there's a way to connect multiple USB devices to iOS. I'm not "iOS aware".

Hi,

I use Cantabile from Top Ten Software as the heart of my stage setup to perform a similar function. Currently my Montage is in Single Channel Mode which is now giving me problems for some songs, but I will probably reprogram it now to use multi channel mode, and should then not have any limitations, as Cantabile MIDI processing can take a single channel and stack it up on many channels if needed if I want to use a Montage multi-part performance, and map MIDI channels so I still only need one source channel.

My Kronos can transmit on all MIDI channels, and you can set each Combi Timbre (part) to any channel, but I don't want to use timbres up unnecessarily to drive an external device like the Montage when they are all playing the same thing.

I think it would still be useful if you could decide MIDI receive Channels for Montage parts, as not everybody will want a Computer in their stage rig.

I follow Bad Mister's argument for what Yamaha have done on the Montage in general, and I really, really like it as a performance synth (I did not need another workstation, especially when it is paired with my Kronos), but I think Yamaha are missing a trick by seemingly not being willing to consider allowing the user to set a different receive MIDI channel for a Performance Part when the USER DECIDES it fits their use case. So whilst I do listen to Yamaha and the argument for why Montage is the way it is, I would equally hope that Yamaha are prepared to listen to constructive criticism and requests for features from their user base who buy these expensive synths and take it on board to make the Montage even better. 🙂

Hi out there,

I’m currently waiting for my new MODX7 to arrive....but my excitement has been dulled quite a bit by going down the rabbit hole of ALL the threads about this Midi issue that unfortunately, has been carried over from the MONTAGE to the MODX.

I’m commenting on this particular thread, although older, because there seems to be like minded people here trying to accomplish the same thing I am.

I was wondering if anyone stubbled across any solutions, OR if anyone could recommend a 61 key controller that could handle the midi implementation of the MODX...

I do own a Kronos that I plan to marry with the MODX, and it seems like those two will play together nicely. However, because of certain circumstances, the Kronos might not always be available, so I’d like to also be able to join the MODX with an external controller.

My biggest take away from reading all the post: It’s being marketed as a Keyboard for “live” players... 16 parts! 1-8 local, 9-16 external. Has anyone out there successfully utilized 16 parts in some variation of splits and layers in any way? Live?

I’m still excited about the board and what it has to offer but I do feel as though I’ve been mislead a bit..... I hope someone out there has some good news on the subject. Side note, new member...great community here!

While I totally agree with you, I think everyone has given up on submitting feature requests in this forum. That's just pointless. At best, there is no answer, at worst there is a lecture on how you do not understand your instrument. This forum is for getting help if you have an issue which can be solved with the current Montage feature set. And it is very good at that!

There is a better forum for submitting feature requests, now, officially from Yamaha: Go to https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com, sign up and you can submit feature requests, comment on them, vote them up and down. This particular feature request has been added by someone and has a lot of upvotes, already. And even a comment from a Yamaha representative that it will be considered for a future update (not promised, though). Please go there and upvote and leave a comment.

The impossibility of free allocation of MIDI channels is nothing less than a blunder made by Yamaha engineers.

@Tillis,

It is true you cannot arbitrarily assign PARTs to different MIDI channels. There is a fairly narrow set of circumstances where this would be absolutely necessary to do. From what you describe, using your MODX in a multi-keyboard setup, I'm not sure you will be hindered by this.

Both Montage and MODX are best suited to be the master controller. Here, all PARTs can be assigned any arbitrary transmit MIDI channel. If this fits your usage - then you can stop there and chalk up the limitation as irrelevant to vs. your needs.

If you need to control Montage from an external keyboard to simulate striking the local keyboard (but using an external keyboard's piano keys instead of MODX's or Montage's) - then you can do that. Even if the external controller only supports one zone (one transmit MIDI channel). There's a mode for that - Single-Channel MIDI mode where you can also assign any arbitrary MIDI channel which is assigned as the MIDI receive channel for all PARTs simultaneously. If this works for your needs, then you can see the limitation as not affecting your usage.

If you need some other functionality - something that can only be accomplished by setting up your own assignments of PART-to-MIDI-receive-channel mapping -- AND, primarily, that this means multiple PARTs would overlap and use the same MIDI channel -- then this can be done as well by using additional external gear. A computer can handle this task. There are also dedicated hardware MIDI devices which re-channel MIDI messages. However, it's quite possible that you do not need this. And, if you've run through all the traps and determine you need external gear (computer, hardware) - then your setup may have demonstrated a valid reason for Yamaha to consider changing policy through a firmware update or maybe a future generation.

Blunder or otherwise is too heavy handed for me. I see the current limitation as part of the foundation which springs some of the features we enjoy. I do think it would be "better" to have more flexibility - and I welcome/enjoy seeing challenges to the team for improvement and other constructive feedback. I suppose I would not mind (as much) seeing a "slam" if I saw more details about how exactly those who are dishing it out require the feature. How, in their setup, there is a limitation that cannot be solved without using some other mode/feature already provided. More than venting - I think details on setup requirements and walking through those details would better serve the cause.

Thanks for indulging.

Jason:

There is a fairly narrow set of circumstances where this would be absolutely necessary to do

That's a misunderstanding!
Making live-music without computers and use the Yamaha Montage in your live set-up is a fairly narrow set of circumstances???

I replaced my Motif XF6 for a Montage 6. My main-board is a Nord Stage 2. I can only play two parts of the Yamaha Montage on the Nord Stage, because I need to make splits on the Montage. That is a fairly common use. I don't want to call that 'a fairly narrow set of circumstances'...

So I agree with Robert

The impossibility of free allocation of MIDI channels is nothing less than a blunder made by Yamaha engineers.

@Jeroen

Labeling something as narrow is not meant to dismiss. I see someone coming in without much information about what they are trying to do seemingly with a "sky is falling" impression from the discussions. It's not true that all external control is broken. It's not even clear if the last observations from Tillis come from someone who is trying to use Montage as a slave, master, or some hybrid.

Your situation is a hybrid.

What I enjoy about your posts is that you delineate what you need in specific terms. I'm asking others to do the same to establish critical mass.

The situation is that the most impressive sounds of the Montage are multi part. So it is obvious that musicians want to use primarily these specific sounds in live situations.
An external keyboard cannot (in most cases) trigger a multipart sound of the Montage. It is as simple as that.
If you want to play a 3 part Montage piano from a Nord piano weighed keyboard: impossible. If you want to play a multi part string section, with maybe some special effects on the lower or upper end of your keyboard range: impossible. Buy a secondhand Motif, it does just that.

Yes, if you have a second keyboard that can send out multiple MIDI channels you can do all of the above. We all know that. But the Montage is the center of our setup, the other keyboards we use for specific sounds or purposes.

My feeling is that Yamaha knows very well that this is a shortcoming and a problem for many customers. The discussion is as old as the Montage itself.
It has nothing to do with understanding your instrument or being unwilling to find workarounds.
Montage is the top instrument to buy at this moment, but maybe there is a slight possibility that this makes the Montage a little bit less perfect?

While I totally agree with you, I think everyone has given up on submitting feature requests in this forum. That's just pointless. At best, there is no answer, at worst there is a lecture on how you do not understand your instrument. This forum is for getting help if you have an issue which can be solved with the current Montage feature set. And it is very good at that!

There is a better forum for submitting feature requests, now, officially from Yamaha: Go to https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com, sign up and you can submit feature requests, comment on them, vote them up and down. This particular feature request has been added by someone and has a lot of upvotes, already. And even a comment from a Yamaha representative that it will be considered for a future update (not promised, though). Please go there and upvote and leave a comment.

But actually, coulndn't agree more

Dear all,

Still fun to see that a discussion I already started right after the release of the Montage in a different thread is still active and that keyboard fanatics keep bumping into the same issue with the Montage and its MIDI implementation and leave this forum disappointed.

Much more because Yamaha fails to sympathise with its key users who have been relying on their Yamaha hardware for years. The heavily used answer from Yamaha to just buy an external MIDI controller that can be configured to transmit to multiple channels at the same time just shows the do not understand how older Yamaha synth models have grown as the center piece in lots of keyboard setups. And these threads are absolutely no attack on the concept of the Montage as a whole, but Yamaha users get the feeling Yamaha just does not want to understand what modern keyboard setups have to be like to keep up with alternatives like soft synths etc.

My biggest problem is not that I do not have the money or even the urge the buy a different external controller which can transmit on multiple MIDI channels at the same time. My problem is that I need a center piece synth on which I can recall performance after performance real quick instantly configuring all sounds, even layered or in split in some cases, correctly for both keybeds without having to alter settings on other devices or controllers. There is just no time for that during a show between songs. The Montage fits 99% of the requirements in such a setup and this is why it leaves me so disappointed that this 1% is only caused by the MIDI input implementation, some piece of software code which of course has performance impact but would enable lots of users to really start loving this new Yamaha product.

+1

It's software, just add a passive mode (disable all local controls, ok, as a software engineer I know it's not like "just add"), or just a message telling us that performance controls would not function if overriding midi channels for parts (as a software engineer I know that is "just add"). I am so disappointed in Yamaha's representatives almost making fun of their customers' needs. Earlier I have been part of a world wide business making software, its slogan was "Why Make It Harder", Yamaha, please, why make it harder?

Six